Why some locomotives are sold for scrap and some are still around?

Trains Magazine General Discussion
41

Interesting. I always wondered why CR got rid of those GP38s so early…

LC

42

Scrap is WAAAAY UP! Next we call for the torch and go to VEGAS!!

LOL…

LC

43

OK, sorry, was just going for a quick laugh…

LC

44

My Christmas Holidays were delayed by a week, (my posting was extended until the end of February, break starting next week) so I’m still at work and missing a thread I want to get into!

I’ve been looking for an excuse to point out that a couple more Alco units entered traffic on the Australian East Coast last month after years of storage. These are two DL541s, 1800HP 12-251C powered hood units. Others are gradually appearing - three other DL541s that had faded out in ARG service have been leased for track maintenance work. The flow of Federal funding for rail (I mentioned this on the Open Access thread)has started and MoW trains need power.

The 251 is a pretty tough engine, and like the EMD 645 has a welded block. Major spares are available (from Fairbanks Morse, ironically). These are more expensive than EMD spares, but the Alco has one thing in its favour - it has fuel consumption figures not very different from current locomotives. You wouldn’t think so watching the unburnt fuel come out the stack on throttling up, but this lasts only seconds -try to photograph it if you don’t believe me!

A group of similarly powered DL500 cab units are still in service, although some of these haven’t been maintained well lately and a number have dropped out of service.

In Australia, there are still maybe one hundred 1800HP to 2000HP Alcos still around. Many of these were sold off by the government systems in the early 1990s when traffic was falling and new EMD units arrived. Many were kept by small operations against the time that privatisatiom would raise traffic and demand for locomotives.

But the older EMDs were largely kept by the major operators, and they too are in use in the current expanding climate.

The real sign that demand is there is the recalling of most of the surviving 1800 HP English Electric locomotives. These had been limited to minor switching work with most in storage, but five or six are now working MoW trains. The EE 12CSVT is

45

[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Bob Berry

Let me throw in a couple of thoughts in here about the ALCO verses the EMD. First of all when you talk about the reliability of engine (locomotive) you have to take into consideration more than just the engine. The engine is a big part but it is not every thing. Keep in mind the GE made all the electrical components for the ALCO. Is there a connection here? Roughly seven years after the demise of ALCO, GE hits the market with their first U Boats. Connection? Don’t know.

Secondly let me talk about the Train-Master with used a Fairbanks-Morse 38D-8-1/8 engine. In marine and stationary service this is one of the finest engine ever built (I might add that I work on this engine in the Navy for 3-1/2 years and they were a strong reliable engine “in marine (submarine) use.” The engine was designed in the 30’s and still in service today. You will find them in small power plants; they are still in service in the Nuclear Submarine as auxiliary engine, still used in marine service in basically the same engine. For an engine the have lasted over 70 year is a testament to what kind of engine it.
In the talking with some of the old timers who ran these engine most will tell you that they were a dirty engine and leaked a lot of oil. I will give that one to the 39D-8-1/8 the coffin cover need a lot of attention to get them to stop leaking. In the Navy this was not a problem since you have a person watching 24 hour out of the day. If I had to guess why the Railroad didn’t like these engines I would say the main problem is that the vertical drive unit that synchronized the timing of the upper and lower cranks. For those who do not know about these engine is that a 10 cylinder engine, had 20 pistons and two crankshafts and the pistons move towards the center of the cylinder. Thus no heads, no valves and camshaft assemble. What happen in train engine that doesn’t happen in marine service is that you have the engine fully loaded and

46

No way! They were leaking Angel Dust??? All this time I thought they were leaking polychlorinated biphenyls…

47

Dear Mr. Hemphill,

I realize this is somewhat off topic, but inasmuch as you have extensive knowledge beyond mine of industrial history:

Has GE employed this strategy in other aspects of their business ventures (i.e. manufacturing, electronics, switch gear, aircraft engines, &c, &c)? GE has not only deep pockets, but they have wide perspectives (somewhat reminiscient of your earlier invocation of Mr. Stalin’s quote.)

Many thanks in advance,
Michael Loik

48

LC,

No way! It’s OK! You’re on to a good thing!!! UP’s tracks are only several feet away from many casinos! It would probably be easy to torch apart a few tons of sheet metal and other alloys and drag it onto the floor. Afterall, they used to have assayers right there to cash in on the diggings…

OK, Oceans (what is this now?) Thirteen!?

Who’s with us?

49

Mloik![8D]

Good Googy Moogy! Yep, it was actually PCBs…[:p]…I just have to say…
YOU GOT ME GOOD ON THAT ONE!! [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][tup]

50

Mark,
I am curious if the Caterpillar history/business model information is something that you find interesting. If so maybe you could shed a little light on something. There is a company called Kootenay Manufacturing (KMC) that bought a company called FMC which made a steel tracked vehicle for use in WWII as a personel transport (so I have been told). This machine (KMC) is used in many odd and rough environments Logging, Mining etc. It uses a 6V-53 non turbo. I have had a chance to wa

51

Kootenay Tractor purchased the rights to manufacture, market, and service this tractor (http://www.kmc-kootrac.com/companyprofile.html). FMC is still around (http://www.fmc.com/), although they have closed or sold off many divisions over the decades. The divisions I can think of off the top of my head are freight cars, fire engines, pumps, and military equipment. They have also spun off FMC Technologies which makes energy system equipment, airport equipment, and food processing equipment.

52

FMC = Better living through chemistry these days.

They also made some military vehicles and armaments in the past…

LC

53

Dont forget one GG-1 actually survived a full basement drop into the station (Congressional??) and was pulled back onto the rails and ran some more.

I wonder if we ever will see another electric engine with the very “You cant break this” strength of the GG1.

54

Here is what happened to that division.
http://www.uniteddefense.com/co/history.htm

55

That GG1 wasn’t exactly pulled back onto the rails and run. It was cut into large pieces,hauled to Altoona,and rebuilt at the Juniata shops.

56

Thanks for the update, It was much appreciated.

57

That’s the correct sight Mark, but the newer units have varied a little from the older ones which are a little closer to being something you would see on a battlefield in WWII. One thing I hadn’t considered was that the KMC’s have a torque converter based drive not a direct drive which I am sure A-C had. The KMC units may look lightweight but I have seen them clear rocks, stumps, landslide debris, that a D5H was unable to clear.
I understand what you are saying about CAT in the locomotive market. Do you happen to know if GE queried any of the American diesel manufacturers such as CAT when they were shopping for a 6000HP engine?

Dave
Thanks for the tip on the book.

58

Mark,

Thanks for the clue on the “Yellow Steel” book. Gonna go lookin’ for it right now.

Track riders or track layers, both are fascinating machinery. Steam or diesel.