I’m totally new in this cool world of model railroading and I am about to embark on a few miniature dioramas using HO scale accessories. I need to populate a parking lot in one of my dioramas but when I went to the local hobby store to scope out the vehicles I noticed that many of the different manufacturer’s vehicles don’t match up with one another in scale. They all say 1:87 but if you hold an Atlas car next to a Model Power mini car or any other company’s line (I forgot the names of the others) there tends to be enough differences to step back and say, “what do I use?”.
I’m looking for vehicles that are more modern, 70’s- current, standard stuff you’d find on the streets today. I did pick up a Model Power Mini 2004 MB ML SUV mainly because the size looked right and they had several other standard vehicles in their line (not to mention they are half the price of all the others and look just as good. I’m not sure whether they will have everything I’ll need in the end though so I must ask, what do you guys do? Do you mix and match? Do you stick with one manufacturer? Is this even a problem with you guys?
Some of the cool trucks within each line look too big also.
Interesting. I’ve never heard anyone say that before.
I can recommend checking out Wal Mart for 1/87 cars. They sell a line called Malibu that are the same as the model power for about 1/2 the price.
In the olden days this used to be true, cheaper plastic vehicles would be a bit out of scale as compared to Wiking & Herpa
But the latest wave of high-detailed plastic vehicles (such as Atlas, Athearn) and die-cast (Model Power, Malibu, CMW, and so-on) seem very close to scale dimensions - perhaps it is just perception?
Hmmm, perhaps the tires/suspension? Some model vehicles seem higher/jacked up than they should be in real life - tires/wheels out of scale?
Some vehicles are scaled to fit the packaging, such as the Norscot/Catepillar construction series. I model N scale [1:160], and here the situation includes diecast 1:144 such as the Racing Champions really nice cars and trucks, 1:150 Japanese N scale, great 1:160 vehicles from Atlas, Athearn, CMW, Wiking and others. The Bachmann and Model Power seem to me to be a little smaller, but maybe just because they are less expensive. Now, some people mix all of these on the layout, saying there is such a small difference. I think they stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. I have a box of them that I have purchased at auction which listed them as N scale but were not 1:160. The same is true for figures. I bought a batch listed as N that would be giants on the layout, 8-9 feet tall. And of course there are those sellers who list items as N/HO scale, since they don’t know the difference or that there is a difference. So beware if scale consistency bothers you.
Part of the problem is that some manufacturers are still flogging products that they have been selling for years, and the tooling was done when people accepted out of scale vehicles – we were just grateful for vehicles. Then there is the sneaky advertising such as a line of vehicles that IHC offered where the ad copy said “looks great on HO layouts” – not really claiming they were HO (and they weren’t! – they are oversized).
I’ve noticed the same problem with HO scale people between the different manufacturers, with some brands being way out of proportion. Two packages seemed to be O or S scale, despite being labeled as HO.
And thanks for the different opinions. I think the biggest problem I will have is with a layout such as the parking lot where many of the cars will be side by side. I think I’ll need to find a manufacturer that has several current vehicle choices available and use them for that type of diorama.
The prices on some of these cars seem outrageous especially if you need several to populate a layout. I’ll pay $10-15 bucks for a boss Fire Engine or other unique vehicle but hope to keep the cost around $5 per car, as I did in purchasing the Model Power SUV. I’ll look and see what Wal Mart has as suggested.
This is a cool hooby you guys got! I picked up a couple of Walthers catalogs last week and was blown away by all the stuff that’s made! And in two weeks, I’m going to go to my first model railroad show! Woo-Hoo!!
Don’t forget that you can use a forced perspective in placing the cars of different sizes that you have. However, when placing them all in a row, then they do need to be the same size as you pointed out.
You can do the same with buildings, trees, and people. Larger in front, smaller in back. That is what I do on my layout. (Forced perspective, for those that don’t know, is by placing smaller objects at the back of a scene and larger one in front, your eye thinks that the scenes depth is greater because smaller objects are always farther away.)
The Walthers catalog is a good place to check out vehicles. I would say that of the brands shown there, if they are labeled 1/87 or H0, then they are pretty accurate… Wiking (pronounced Viking), Herpa, Busch, Boley, Concor, Mini Metals, Atlas, Kibri, Lonestar, Ricko, Trident, Woodland Scenics, Athearn and Atlas are all 1/87 scale vehicles.
As someone else said, perception can be an issue, we’re used to seeing vehicles 1 to 1 and from a few feet away as opposed to our model vehicles which we view from 50 to 100 scale feet away.
Use the Walthers catalog for reference, but shop either at a local hobby shop or online retailer. Walthers is one of our main MR distributors, so their prices are not discounted except for special sales. Welcome to the hobby!
When I have several or more vehicles in one area, such as a parking lot, I try to use vehicles from a single manufacturer. Malibu is pretty good about keeping their vehicles at 1/87, so it’s fairly easy with them.
I saw the Malibu line of vehicles last night at Wal Mart and those look to be pretty close in scale to others vehicle lines I’ve seen. Nice price for a 5-pak also but won’t be able to use some of their “funkier” roadster models.
I’ve actually experienced with forced perspective recently on a photo layout I had to do; I created a country road that “disappeared” in the distance and used larger trees up front and smaller ones in the back. It turned out pretty cool, IMHO! That was good practice for me as it was the first time I used Woodland Scenics products.
I have the same trouble with a lot of accessories – buckets the size of bathtubs, shovels with flagpoles for handles.
The other day, I was adding eavestroughs to a small building so I went to my parts boxes. The Rix eavestroughs looked right but the Micro Engineering (!) eavestroughs could have doubled as water slides!
I model HO but have on occasion used (supposedly) N scale items simply because they looked more “right.”
One trick I have found that works well is to find an accurate HO scale figure of an upright standing 6 ft. tall man.
Just place any suspect items next to the figure to see if they feel right.
One caveat: be a keen observer of reality. Don’t let your own vague recollections or misperceptions mislead you.
I’ve had a couple of model kits that turned out to be slightly out of scale (perhaps for use in forced perspective?), even though they were clearly labelled “HO”. Forced a couple of quick redesigns to move the models away from their slightly larger cousins. Having done that, they look pretty good.
I do the same thing and bring the vehicle or other accessory over to the racks where the HO people are hanging and compare the item to the size of the people to see if they are going to work. I almost bought a sidewalk set tonight until comparing it to the little people and realizing that the sidewalk could double as a street!
So I guess the moral of the story is that, while the NMRA is enforcing standards for track, locos, and rolling stock, it’s really caveat emptor for anything else marked “HO”. Some manufacturers – even modern ones – apparently treat the 1:87 as an approximation.
This is true even within a company. My son has several sets of HO toy soldiers manufactured by Airfix. Some sets are slightly larger than others. Not enough to be jarring, but it’s noticable.
CTValleyRR,
The NMRA doesn’t “enforce” anything. It’s not like they are a national police force that’s going to arrest, fine or seize manufacturers that fail to produce models up to NMRA Standards and Recommended Practices. What they have are written Standards and RP’s that manufacturers can choose to follow or ignore. If a manufacturer decides to follow the NMRA Standards and RP’s, and if they submit the model to the NMRA for inspection, they can then label their product with the NMRA Conformance and Inspection logo (the C&I “football”) that states that this product conforms to all applicable NMRA Standards and RP’s. This is usually done as a mere sales tool, and has no relation to actual quality or fidelity to the prototype.
My favorite example is that Bachmann Spectrum diesels have the NMRA C&I “football” while Kato does not. Which would you rather have?
I apologize for my poor word choice. Not intending to engage in a legal debate, I wasn’t particularly concerned with the implications of that word.
I am well aware the industry standards aren’t “enforced” in the legal sense by the standards board. They’re enforced by the market. Fidelity to the prototype outside of the actual scale is a matter of personal preference. Personally, I roll my eyes everytime I see someone say something like "the space between the drivers is 6 scale inches too short (which works out, in HO scale, to about .006 inches). That difference doesn’t destroy the illusion of reality for a lot of us. Again, don’t go all picky on me. If it matters to you, feel free to enforce it on your own layout. So, it’s marketing, but if a company gains a reputation for ignoring the
The best way to tell if something you are familiar with such as cars are in scale is to purchase an ho person you know is to scale and use that to determine if it looks right because some of the cars in real life are huge compared to others ( i.e. a hummer compared to a yaris ).