That makes sense. Thanks!
Could we say that TRAXX is like an average car made without any modifications. let’s say FIAT from Italy. Take it unmodified to Nordic countries with very cold and sometimes wet weather and you end up to difficulties.
Siemens Mobility may have fared poorly in Germany , but look at some of the other markets: A real boom there! This is by no means one of the falling manufacturers.
I also believe that even Octeon platform IOREs might have competition from Siemens Vectron now, but of course time will tell. After what happened between Bombardier and its customers Green Cargo and CargoNet I doubt these will be putting any trust into Bombardier again in the near future. But Vectron’s proven ability to work in the real north might mean a lot more units delivered there to handle any heavier and lighter tasks, heavy ore trains included.
Aren’t the HHP-8 units (and the Acela Power Cars) based on Alstom TGV Power Cars rather than any recent Bomberdier design? I seem to recallthe HHP-8s were related to the BB 36000 class locomotives of the SNCF.
While the Acela trains were supplied by Bombardier, they were basically Alstom power cars hauling Canadian LRC passenger cars.
Some of the body design where the vehicles differed from the French originals (suspension, body where collision requirements were concerned and couplers and coupler mounting) would have been Bombardier’s responsibility.
M636C
My understanding is that the BB 36000s and HHP-8s have the same electrical equipment.
IIRC, the HHP-8s are rated slightly higher, and are significantly heavier (for crash regulations?).
They may also have different computer systems, and this is where many of the problems have taken place.
The other reason for replacement is the small class size, with just 15 on Amtrak.
To those not aware of what French class BB36000 “Astrid” looks like, here are a couple of pictures of it. This unit is owned by SNCF leasing company Akiem and it is operated by SNCF rival Thello (Veolia and Trenitalia in cooperation for overnight trains France- Italy). Here the unit is seen on the westernmost tracks of Paris Gere de Lyon station in France. Pictures by Ilkka Siissalo and taken 3 weeks ago.
Funnily, the locomotive indeed shares some external components with the older TGVs 
Next tracks to the operator Thello’s train was this rare specimen of SNCF Corail coach based driving trailer.
The BB 36000s look to me a lot like the Italian E.464s. That cab car though…can’t say I am a fan.
Yes, another case of brick like design somewhat copied…
Astrid is an Alstom design and E464 a Bombardeir one. Maybe they have the same outward appearance designer? That often explains strange coincidenses in Europe.
Me neither, but the Corail coaches, the same design as the dt, still look cool, don’t they?
He is a rare original colored and very comfortable Corail coach seen at Nice Ville, France. After several decades of intense use.
The coaches are also pretty smooth riding, too. The only thing I would do to the cab car is increase the angle of the front. I think that would improve the appearance.
Definitely! If I guess that the crash norms forced to hide the energy absorbing beams this way I might not be far from the truth?
While the HHP-8 teething took a number of years to resolve, they have been consistently unreliable throughout their years in service, “Currently 12.6 days between unscheduled shop visits” and have “high per-unit support cost.” That sounds pretty horrid to me. This is according to Amtrak Fleet Strategy, February, 2010, pp. 21.
Even more interesting is an option to use HHP-8 to create additional Acela trainsets, on pp. 42: “Investigate the possibility of operating the two additional sets utilizing HHP-8 locomotives at each end in place of the Acela power cars. This approach will provide a use for some of the HHP-8 locomotives planned to be displaced by the new electric locomotives.” But this seems odd based on their opinion of their relative unreliability.
True, that is bad. Have they gotten better since 2010?
You would still need new cars, and with the age and reliability of these units, I think this will not take place, and the Acela’s will be replaced with that recent order along with the California HSR.
Sorry, I seem to have missed this. I suspect you are right.
True, we MARC riders cringe during the weather extremes when we see these units coming. I’ve been on trains that die 50 yards out f WUS in 100+ degree weather, and we’re stuck on the train without AC until they get it running or pushed back into the station, there’s no departing the hermetically sealed tube once we’re out of the station. Even the riders who care squat for trains know these units are a problem and recognize them when they roll in. Admittedly, while I’m not one for modern locos, one of the perks of riding MARC out of Odenton is watching AMTK’s ACS64s come flying through while waiting for my train.
For the record they are Alstom locomotives. They are somewhat different from the Acelas which are basicly tried and true TGV power cars.
I believe MARC is committed to go all diesel to end the need for two different fleets of locomotives.
From another site problems of the HHP-8s
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Wheel slip control is by truck not axle so any slip loose half the HP.
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Max HP on dry track is 6000 due to derating. AEM-7DCs 5000 HP
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latest computer interface is windows xp 32 bit. INFO Acela is windows 98
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Requires PCACIA flash card that requires battery to retain flash info.
All this will make one wonder once the lease maintenance period of the ACS-64s is over will obsolete software doom them ?
Problems 1-4 would seem to preclude any outfit taking on the HHP-8s.
The main problem with the HHP-8s was the computer problems that resulted when multiple catenary systems and voltages panicked the computers. MARC’s units have done better because they don’t have to deal with this to the same degree that Amtrak did. They did have their design flaws, some of which were resolved, some of which weren’t.
The big thing that doomed them were the small size of class, and their uniqueness. Parts supply became difficult to maintain, and the long mail and express trains that they were ordered for vanished soon after they were built. The AEM-7s needed replaceing, and it was simply easier and more cost effective to replace the HHP-8s too. Presumably, the HHP-8s could have been rebuilt with newer computers, but it wasn’t seen as cost effective to do so. Many freight locomotives have computers replaced at heavy rebuild intervals.
Their future is storage until the lease is up, and then presumably scrap. Hopefully one is preserved.
Regarding the ACS-64s, they are a larger class so it will be easier to maintain their parts supply, particularly if they have much in common with the Vectrons and Chargers in terms of electronics. The lessons of the HHP-8 are important, though.
- AAdd reason 5 There is an electrical part that needs cooling but leaks glycol and once the level gets too low WHAM - OH. Never has the problem been fixed. Suspect expansion and cooling stresses the container seams.
Plus with SEPTA getting up to 17 ACS-64s the maintenance base becomes bigger.
[sigh]
I have a polite request to make:
Can everyone that is dragging up my posts from two years ago please read my post from yesterday?
I am well aware that MARC is buying Chargers and wrote a couple posts a few months ago about the war with Amtrak over electricity costs that caused MARC to go all-diesel. I did not know that two years ago, and neither did anyone else.
Perhaps others that read this forum were not aware of MARC’s decision since I don’t believe your comments were in this thread, perhaps I missed them, they deserve to be informed. I believe MARC’s decision is more related to Amtrak’s termination of the maintenance agreement on MARC’s fleet as those locomotive models will no longer be present in Amtrak’s fleet.
Sincere apologies…I have sent a request to the moderator to delete the post.