Why did the CNW merge with the UP instead of mergering with the BN RAILROAD? Allan.
Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt it more of a takeover?
Without the UP, the CNW would’ve been gone a long time ago.
Jeff
Chicago Northern [;)]
BN already had a route to Chicago from Omaha. UP also had a substancial financial position (I think) in CNW.
ed
I still think the UP should have taken over the Rock Island Railroad.
Allan.
When I go railfanning on the UP’s Adam’s line, I would rather see UP engines than BNSF. BNSF doesn’t have a 3985, a 844 or a DDA40X, or a E9 set or a big yellow passenger car set, or ex-CNW cabooses on the back of their locals, and a lot of old wooden ex-CNW depots, and…
I actually see Mopac cabooses on our locals, every now and then we get an odd UP caboose though.
Well Allan,
In the first half of the 1990s it was the UP that was well run and had lots of ca***o spend, not BN.
C&NW’s entry into the Powder River Basin was through the WRPI, of which UP held the mortgage.
C&NW’s main from Fremont to Chicago was carrying mostly UP traffic. UP held an option on the IAIS and could have rebuilt it with double track and CTC, and perhaps added the EJ&E if they wanted.
C&NW needed UP, but UP did not need the C&NW.
If BN won a bidding war with UP for the C&NW (not very likely), they still would have needed government approval (again, not very likely).
Why would BN pay a high price for C&NW, with most of the traffic going elsewhere ?
BN would have had to borrow the money for the purchase, and there was no way they could repay the loan, pay the interest and still make a profit.
I would speculate that would have driven BN stock down far enough to anger a lot of stockholders, thus endangering the jobs of BN’s top management.
UP won the right to buy the CRI&P in 1974, but the Rock had fallen to far into disrepair by then.
UP does have 2,000 of the 4,000 miles of the Rock that is still around, from the Twin Cities to Fort Worth and Santa Rosa, plus the corn lines.
A little off subjejet, but why did the government nix the SP/ATSF merger?
But wasn’t the Rock Island the “true” Transcon route? And not the CNW,Right? I mean the Rock Island was the first Railroad into Council Bluffs wasn’t it? Allan.
UPRR owned a CONSIDERABLE amount of CNWRR stock. [:)]
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Originally posted by BNSFrailfan.
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QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed
UPRR owned a CONSIDERABLE amount of CNWRR stock. [:)]
I know that. But that doesn’t anwer my Question.
Allan.
BNSF
Yes, the Rock Island was the first line between Council Bluffs and Chicago. By the early 1880’s you had the RI, CNW, and CBQ (using modern names). They formed the Iowa Pool, the one successful pool of the era. Then things got messy. If you are interested in this there is a book titled The Iowa Pool that you can probably get on inter-library loan. Subject is also dealt with in biography of Jay Gould who as President of UP tried to break the pool.
By some time early in the 20th Century the CNW had become the favored route, as shown by its route being mostly, if not entirely double track. The junction at Fremont also favored the CNW by keeping freight interchange out of the congested Omaha and Council Bluffs terminals.
I am not familiar with details of CNW’s attainment of favored connection status. Perhaps someone can steer you to some sources. By 1980 or so CNW dominated the Chicago-Omaha route and when UP went shopping the obvious buy was CNW, even though they had to take the rest of the railroad to get what they wanted, which was Omaha-Chicago and the Poder River basin coal line.
Mac
Sure it does since the UPRR was on the BOD of the CNWRR. [:p]
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Originally posted by BNSFrailfan.
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Originally posted by spbed
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My local (Chicago) understanding of UP-CNW was Chicago access. Up had bought Mopac for access but it is an around the barn routing from Pueblo Colorado and into Chicago up the old CE&I along the Indiana Ilinois border. In retrospect this may have been a necessary first step so the STB would look favorably on a more direct route as not influencing competition but the CNW is a high speed route acrross much of Illinois having been completely rebuilt in the 80’s and it is double tracked giving UP more direct access to connections in Chicago
does UP still have that option on IAIS…?
It was too much of a parallel merger and not enough end to end. For example, it would have renedered all of NM and AZ with only one major RR.
does UP still have that option on IAIS…?
IAIS is the old Rock Island main and t runs less than a mile from my house. I have only seen two trains on it with UP power both in the last month. The CNW was a far better choice, has a first class yard in the Chicago area (Proviso) and connects with UP at a more advantageous location in my opinion