The Heartland Flyer usually has a P42 on the south end of the train and a cabbage unit on the north end of the train. If the cabbage unit is out of service for maintenance, the train has a P42 on the south end and a locomotive on the north end. According to what one of the Fort Worth based conductors told me, only one of the units is powered-up even though the train has two locomotives. The Flyer has locomotives or fake locomotives at both ends of the train because of the cost and logistics of turning the train in Fort Worth and Oklahoma City. The push-pull operation produces a better outcome.
I rode the Cascades a couple of years ago. The train was not turned in Portland or Seattle, which I suspect is the reason for having a locomotive at both ends of the train.
Makes sense, does anyone know, is this a full replacement of the fleet? the F59s could, presumably go through the same upgrade the Amtrak California units went through if the desire was to keep them.
It was my understanding that the P42’s while able to run at 100 mph took to long to accelerate to get up to 110 so they were using two to have the HP to accelerate guickly to 110. The Siemans chargers are expected to do it solo. So they may go back to a Cabbage on one end with the Siemans on the other. Amtrak uses cab cars (former PRR Budd built metroliner cars) on the Keystones (Harrisburg PA) trains and in California on the SanDiego-LA-Santa Barbara route. Grade Crossing accidents are better survived in a locomotive or Cabbage than in a cab car. On my last trip on a San Diego-LA train with a cab car (Alstrom Surfliner) leading had the front of the car roped off, and I requested the engineer whether I could forward to look out the front and she told me NO so I stayed behind the rope. LA’s Metrolink has had issues with their Hundai-Rotem cab cars. In February 2015, a Metrolink commuter train collided with a utility truck on a grade crossing in Oxnard, Calif. The pilot assembly detached from the cab car it derailed. The incident killed the engineer and injured more than 30 passengers. Not sure what statistics are for Metra’s cab cars but I don’t remember many crew fatalities in vehicle-train collisions.
MidlandMike
I wonder if the fact that the Wolverine corridor has some 110 mph running, if they prefer to have an engine at the front.
It was my understanding that the P42’s while able to run at 100 mph took to long to accelerate to get up to 110 so they were using two to have the HP to accelerate guickly to 110. The Siemans chargers are expected to do it solo. So they may go back to a Cabbage on one end with the Siemans on the other. Amtrak uses cab cars (former PRR Budd built metroliner cars) on the Keystones (Harrisburg PA) trains and in California on the SanDiego-LA-Santa Barbara route. Grade Crossing accidents are better survived in a locomotive or Cabbage than in a cab car. On my last trip on a San Diego-LA train with a cab car (Alstrom Surfliner) leading had the front of the car roped off, and I requested the engineer whether I could forward to look out the front and she told me NO so I stayed behind the rope. LA’s Metrolink has had issues with their Hundai-Rotem cab cars. In February 2015, a Metrolink commuter train collided with a utility truck on a grade crossing in Oxnard, Calif. The pilot assembly detached from the cab car it derailed. The incident killed the engineer and injured more than 30 passengers. Not sure what statistics are for Metra’s cab cars but I don’t remember many crew fatalities in vehicle-train collisions.
The follow on question then is if someone else will be picking them up. Metrolink? given there slow implementation of the F125. They are prime candidates for repower I would think.
Is there an “ECO-like” Tier 4 repower package that could fit in even a kludged F59 carbody? I sincerely doubt the old Tier 2 repower will fly as replacement for Tier 4 final units, even if California government tries to cut itself a break; would there be some way to get the Tier 3+ setup in there – and is there much point in using expensively-modified 3150hp locomotives to do the job much more powerful ones were expected to do?
My guess would be Metra, but as all the Amtrak California, Surfliner-painted and Metrolink F59s are coming into the market in (at least for the first two) better shape, they might be parts sources pending scrapping. I hope at least one gets preserved as the locomotives that built the Cascades franchise, but we will see. A bunch of the worst former GO F59s didn’t do particularly well in the after market.
I didn’t think it needed to be Tier 4. Why would it be any different from the other repowers? Amtrak California already has repowered F59s, so it’s a known quantity. Of course California may prefer the entire fleet to be Tier 4. Coaster and Metrolink use the model. ACE and CalTrain have older models as do Coaster and Metrolink. With the issues Metrolink is having with the F125, There may be interest on the west coast. If not, Commuter ops in Utah and New Mexico along with many others to the east could see value in rebuilt units. As others have said, I will miss them and their brown and green paint scheme.
EPA distinguishes between freshly manufactured (new or rebuilt with less 25% worth of used parts), refurbished (25-50% worth of new parts), and remanufactured. There are too many additional requirements to name here.
Depending on the grade of rebuilt the emission limits are different.
Since 2015 freshly manufactured and refurbished line-haul locomotive must be Tier 4 compliant.
For remanufactured line-haul locomotive all depends on year of original manufacture. A remanufactured F59PHI needs to be Tier 1+ compliant.
So all depends on the scope of the rebuilding program. But quite likely it will fall into the refurbished category needing Tier 4 compliance.
Regards, Volker
Edit: Definition of remanufactured deleted and posted in my first post on the next side
Line haul means anything that is for service outside of yards. California paid for theirs using emissions reduction money that WA and OR did not have access to. The emissions reduction was the primary goal, but reliability improvements were a happy accident.
I’m pretty sure that you can still do ECO repowers, or otherwise NS has been in violation quite a bit for the last couple years. A company recently did a mostly Tier IV or close to it rebuild of a standard F59PH after tests done on SCAX 865, see:
EPA has a simple definition: All locomotives with less than 2,300 hp has to cpmply with the switch cycle every locomotive above this horsepower level has to comply to line-haul cycle.
Locomotive don’t have to comply to Tier 4 if they are remanufactured according to the following definition: (Sorry it is the Canadian definition)
means a locomotive that was originally manufactured after December 31, 1972, that contains more than 25 percent previously used parts and that
(a) has had, whether during a single maintenance event or cumulatively within a five-year period, each power assembly
(i) replaced, or
(ii) inspected and qualified for use;
(b) has been converted to enable it to operate using a fuel other than a fuel it was originally manufactured to use;
(c) is a repowered locomotive; or
(d) is a previously used locomotive into which a remanufactured locomotive engine is installed. (locomotive reconstruite)
I like how a remanufactured locomotive MAY also be a repowered one. Presumably in that case the rules regarding repower supersede. Has NS done any true ECOs with the v12? Or are those all custom based on existing engine cores? Could not an ECO rebuild use a used v12 crankcase and then it would be a re-manufacture?
The GP33ECOs done from GP50s are true ECOs with 12-710 prime movers. The language of the law is pretty confusing, but they wouldn’t be building them if they were illegal.
Freshly manufactured locomotive means a newlocomotive that contains fewer than 25 percent previously used parts (weighted by the dollar value of the parts) as described in § 1033.640.
In the Case of an ECO unit. It’s probably on the hairy edge given that it’s likely that it’s the prime mover assembly and possibly the Radiator, One also wonders how updated electronics would count here. In particular for an F59PHI which is new enough to have engine computers on board. Assuming an ECO package still keeps the unit as a remanufactured loco. The initial production date would hold and it would only need to meet Tier1 and so an ECO would be an upgrade. Alternatively, if you minimized the rebuild work ala some of NS’s creations, you could likely get the used parts count higher. Actually, are all the parts on an ECO skid considered new? is the Alternator Refurbished for example?