For those who are interested -
http://www.madison.com/tct/business/index.php?ntid=103239&ntpid=0
Apparently it isn’t just South Dakota that recognizes the benefits that are at stake here.
I just finished reading this piece, and it appears to me that Madison, Wisconsin doesn’t have any people who’ve got their heads buried in the sand, unlike the folks in Rochester, Minnesota.
CANADIANPACIFIC2816
“There was a time in this fair land when the railroad did not run, when the wild, majestic mountains stood alone against the sun, long before the white man and long before the wheel, when the green, dark forest was too silent to be real.” Gordon Lightfoot
Interesting to see this, and as a Wi resident myself, I’m glad to hear it.
Then you must not know Madison! In reality it’s one heck of an odd town, and quite a few of the people there hate railroads, and want them out of the town (usually because they can’t bare to wait an extra few minutes at a crossing for one of the few trains a day, or because they hate the railroad horns). There have actually been projects proposed to rid the downtown area of Madison of rails all together by spending literally billions of dollars to relocate the rails around the city, all because people don’t like rail in the city. I could get into the details of this proposed projects even, although this isn’t the place for it.
My favorite saying about Madison, which, even though the number probably needs to be adjusted for it’s recent growth, is still true. “Madison…65 square miles surrounded by reality!”
Noah
I pretty much agree with you on this one point, Noah. There will always be a lot of people who are impatient or pissed off with the idea that they must wait a minute or two for a train to clear a crossing. I think they really get hot under the collar if an engine crew stops to throw a yard switch and a train is left momentarily blocking a crossing for this reason. They don’t understand or know what is going on and they get mad![:(!]
CANADIANPACIFIC2816
Frankly, all US producers, whether they directly benefit from the DM&E expansion or not, should support the DM&E expansion in principle. The USA desperately needs to expand it’s rail capacity (preferably competitive capacity), or we’re going to fall way, way behind the rest of the world.
I can tell you who’s not in favor of the DM&E expansion - China. They’ve got BNSF and UP by the choke collar, but they currently have no hold on DM&E, which allows DM&E to serve US interests first and foremost, as opposed to those other two…
Unless DM&E gets to a west coast port, I’d have to believe China doesn’t give a hoot.[;)]
Yeah, unless DME gets port access I think China could care less. Now if the DME rebuilds the Milwaukee Road PCE…
Just a thought.
Noah, I would like some details. And what better place to discuss them than these forums…
Billions of $$$ to relocate the rails. How absurd!
I hope that the residents of Madison will foot the bill, and not the entire state’s taxpayers. Perhaps a study of how much per the proposal would cost them might dissuade the residents from considering the project.
Oh, China gives a hoot all right. Remember, BNSF is their precious baby, by which all those Chinese imports into the USA are cross subsidized by BNSF’s coal and grain income. Now along comes DM&E threatening the status quo, possibly cutting into BNSF’s profits, which may force a rate increase on all those containers coming into the USA e.g. a reduction in the cross subsidy differential, which cuts into China’s government revenue…
[(-D]And now China is in cahoots with Mayo to keep the DM&E out of the PRB?[:O] The only thing I see missing here is grassy knolls and crop circles.[;)]
Don’t be too sure of that, zardoz, it is Madison. [(-D]
Another seldom remarked upon benefit of this project, are the enormous amounts of materials that will be required of railroad suppliers, which certainly have not seen this sort of windfall since Abraham Lincoln’s tenure. Another are the civil engineers, construction crews, etc. It will be interesting to track progress on this line, once it is underway inasmuch one has to wonder if the UP’s long held record for track laying in a single day will be surpassed.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don’t give him any ideas!!!
Now, there’s something to consider. An enormous amount of steel rail, coming probably from China, by way of UP and BNSF.
As someone who lives near Madison, I agree with Noah. Every now and then we get a complainer on the local forum, I usually put them in their place real quick telling them about all the things that come to them by train. They don’t say too much after that.
The city is in the process of spending about eight million dollars to upgrade all crossings within the city to quiet zone status, because nobody living in their $300,000 condo wants to hear the train horns. Go figure.
Zardoz, as far as I know the idea behind this one is a few years old, and it’s never really gotten anywhere other than getting the suport of a few groups. Basically the goal of the entire plan was to get rid of rails on the isthmus in Madison. One group proposed the idea of creating an entirely new mainline to get around the city, by buying up land between McFarland and Cottage Grove to create a new right of way. This way WSOR trains could get to their Johnson Street yard by the Cottage Grove sub rather then through down town. That in itself seem completely impossible to me. You are talking about having to buy land and buildings in highly populated areas and completely leveling them, and then add in all the grading, bridging projects, track cost, etc, and it really get’s nuts (and it’s where I infer the billions of dollars number).
Another group took this a little further, and put out the idea that in addition to the above plan, they also wanted to get rid of the trackage between the Johnson Street yard on the east side all the way to Middleton. Crews wanting to service the line to Prairie Du Chien would have to run up to the Badger Army ammunition plant via the Reedsburg sub, and the come down through the plant and down the Sauk City branch to Mazomanie before getting back on the Prairie sub. The line from Mazo to Middleton would then be operated as a branch instead of the main line into Madison as it is now. Effectively this would leave the only trackage left in Madison on the east side near Johnson Street. Altho
The track thru the Badger plant isn’t all that great, and you get escorted by armed guards thru a military installation. Even worse is the track just outside of the plant.
The isthumus in Madison is a big bottleneck. There is a couple of lakes in the way of efficient traffic flows, compounded by putting the state capitol in the middle of it. If the trains went thru at 20 mph vs. 10, it might help the traffic problems.
Instead of buying land between McFarland and Cottage Grove, how about restoring the Grove line to Jefferson Jct, and from Fort Atkinson to Janesville? The bikers in Madtown wouldn’t let their bike trails go back to original use.[}:)][V]
What now you doubt the grassy knoll(proven on TV) and crop circles (pictures on TV). Whats next UFO’s
rrandb,
You are deliberately attributing a quote to me that I did not say. Please correct your “typo” ASAP or deal with the wrath of Bergie!
No, and please don’t go around deliberately misquoting me, as others take that as a right to post false attributes ostensibly from me. (See the rrandb post where he takes your quote and attributes it to me!)
Now, for the two degrees of separation lesson:
- The Chinese command economy government has a vested interest in having their goods transported across the USA via BNSF et al at cross subsidized rates - "