Hey guys, about how many scale feet would a 1960’s single lane dirt/stone road be across? Also I know these are stupid to ask, about how many scale feet would a creek be small stream, about 10? 15? I was just wondering for my layout, Thanks ya’ll, Mike
Not a stupid question, but a whole lot of variables.
For tight single lane, to the likker still, [;)] 8-9 feet minimum. A two lane country road, about 18-20 feet, minimum.
I used to have a link to road dimensions, but don’t find it now.
Rotor
Two-lane dirt roads typically run 18-22 feet, depending on ditches and intended traffic. Busy loggiing road with big rigs running 40-50 mph…maybe a tad more? Roadside shrubbery will be dusty, remember.
Streams vs. creeks. How big is either, and who says? Creeks run 4-10 feet maybe, with streams covering much of that range and into rivers. In dry season, a river can be a small creek or reduced to stagnant puddles in bad droughts. In June run-off it can be 100 yards across, 200 in many cases, or if flowing over its banks up to several miles inland. Not trying to make fun or anything, but something between 1/4" and 3" in HO scale should be close to what you want for a “stream”.
Wow! That’s like asking, “How long is a string?”
I have seen ‘ad hoc’ dirt roads just barely wider than the tread width of the Jeeps that made them, and unpaved but otherwise fully configured freeways.
I have also seen ‘creeks’ wide enough to dock good-size watercraft at their downstream ends - and narrow enough to spit across farther up into the hills.
I’m afraid this hasn’t been very helpful - but life’s like that.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where most roads resembled deer trails)
I won’t be helpful either but will just observe that when you see a road or street on a layout that looks like it is way too wide, it usually proves to be scale width. Roads, like buildings and trees, tend to look surprisingly large if true scale size for some reason.
This website of historic San Diego area photographs
http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/kt187015sv/?docId=kt187015sv&brand=oac&layout=printable-details
has this shot of an old car on a dirt road. Get a Jordan model car (HO) and note the width and you’d see that this dirt road was actually pretty wide.
By contrast this dirt road is hardly wider than the car itself
http://www.explorehistoricalif.com/april06.html
Dave Nelson
I’ve been on some dirt roads that when coming to an oncoming car both had to almost go to the ditches to pass. That would be 16’ or so. I guess the width would depend upon the area its in. Through hilly/ mtn areas it might be narrow and bottleneck alot . flat open country would be wider. Creeks depend on the area also. Out of the hills/mtns would be deep from the fast moving water while flat areas might be wide and shallow. You pretty much have a free hand in how big you make it, all of them would be realistic.
“Creeks” in Pennsylvania can be larger than “rivers” in Texas. Time of year also matters. A “creek” in June might be 50 ft wide and a foot wide in August. If the area around it is green, then it can be wider. If the area around it has more yellow/brown grass, then make it narrower.
Dave H.
A creek can be different widths all along its course. It can go from narrow to wide and back to narrow. Just remember when it goes narrow the same amount of water needs to go through so the flow will be faster and deeper. The wider areas will be the spots to plan some rapids or show the babbling in your brook.
Brent
Thanks guys for all the answer, now about how far would the RR track usually be from a stream or creek? Mike
It might be 15 feet it might be 100 feet. Figure a 45% angle down from the track at minimum (unless there is a retaining wall).
Dave H.
Ideally above the 100 year high water mark for that creek. If the banks are steep, just at the top edge plust ballast height. If the banks are shallow, and the bed wide, the tracks may have to be several hundreds of yards away. Also, the locating engineers will survey the most direct route possible, not least among the factors being the overall grade. If the torrent is rough and has some falls or strong rapids, the tracks will maintain their sustainable grade according to the company’s specs, and that may mean the grade is often well above the water surface at any one place.
The track could be right in the creek.
Some railroads, mostly logging and mining lines, forded creeks. Steam engines could run through higher water than diesel-electrics because of the need to keep water out of the traction motors.
The Spring 2007 issue of the NRHS BULLETIN has a nice article and pictures of a 1979 fan trip on the Beech Mountain Railroad in West Virginia. The trip had to be cut short because water at one of the fords was too high for the diesel.
Dirt roads (graveled) Are generaly maintained by the county road department. They my be a good resource for historical road specs… I can tell you that the county I live and work in, (I am a county roads employee) has specs for differant roads. First, is the “collector roads”, these roads are top priority in maintanance, as they are the main rural arteries and mail routes. All other roads connect to the collectors. We maintain a width of 24’-26’ with 4-6 degree slope from the edge of the road to the crown (road center). The next type is the “low maintanance roads” resident and some mail routes. These roads get bladed just several times a year. The maintained width is 18’-20’ with 2-4 degree slope. Also these roads get more spot graveling than the Collector roads. Spot graveling is putting gravel only where it’s needed, pot holes, washouts, deep tire rutts, etc. This gravel can come frome differant gravel pits, The color of the gravel will be differant from pit to pit. The next is “trail roads”, these roads get very little maintanance and are just two wheel tracks, No specified width or slope. They would most likely be used by Farmers, hunters, and emergancy vehicles (fire fighting equipment). These specs. are required by the state. Of course the road surface will go “out of spec.” with heavy traffic and a lack of moisture.