Wimpy Bachmann Steam

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Note to self: don’t get any more Bachmann HO steam if I intend to have it pull more than 4-6 cars.

In an earlier post, I mentioned that the two 2-8-0’s and the two Decapods I had both ran poorly at low speed, slowed down badly on grades, and could pull only a few cars up a 2.5% grade. This was with either DC before conversion or DCC. I did all the usual and suggested things to make sure there was no binding, etc. My conclusion was that either the gear ratio needed to be higher, the motor torque higher, or both. I decided maybe this was so because these were small locos with small motors, and not very good mechanical designs. Some people agreed and some not.

Last weekend, I saw a Bachmann Santa Fe 3781 (a large Northern) at a train show and took it home. This thing acts just about the same. It stumbles at low speed. It slows down on 38" curves, which seems unbelievable, since I verified free lateral movement of the driver axles and rods. It doesn’t like grades, even running light. And ten free-rolling freight cars bog it down pretty badly, such that the chuff calibration of a sound decoder I put in it is thrown way off from a “light” calibration. Forget about grades with more than six or seven cars. This engine has been carefully cleaned, checked and lubed.

Not that other steam I have (proto 2000, BLI) doesn’t suffer some of these problems, but my Bachmanns seem the worst. Too bad, because some, especially the Spectrums, are quite good looking.

Hal

2

Buying Bachmann loco without trying it - there is fair chance you will not be satisfied, it seams.

Beeing from Europe, I do not have that option, so my two Bachmann locos were a bit of gambles. Shay ended up being great runner, and 2-8-0 (with bad Bachmann decoder) also run good. Maybe I had a bit of luck.

I sold Consolidation later because I have 18’ min. radius, and this loco likes straight track and generous curves. But Shay is one of my favourite models!

Spectrum 4-6-0 looks like a nice engine, so maybe one day… [8D]

3

I feel for you! Is the locos you have Spectrum models? I have a few of them myself, including the 2-8-0 and a 4-6-0, and I have no problems with them. They manage to pull 10 NMRA weighted 50´ cars up my layouts 2% grade (including 18" curve). I run my on DCC and have not seen the maentioned bogs or speed reductions. Sorry that I don´t have any solutions for your problems.

4

Something is wrong here. We just made several test at our local club and a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 with a Digitrax decoder pulled 17 freight cars up a 2% grade that had a 33" radius curve. The grade was built using W/S ramps so I know it is 2%. At home I have 2.7% grades on one section with a 22" curve - 7 to 8 40’ freight cars can be handled.

Steam engines usually do not pull as good as diesel models, but you have a real problem here.

  • Is the wires to the tender ‘lifting’ the back of the engine? I have seen this. before. They can get tangled with the drawbar.

  • Does the engine ‘stall’ or just start slipping on the grade? If it is stalling, I suspect you are not getting enough power to the rail.

Jim

5

My bachman spectrum light mountain ran great, pulled great and looked great. I sold it because it had problems with the tender staying on the track in turns. The wires are too stiff and even with a heavily weighted tender it still came off. After much tinkering and adjustment I just gave up and sold it.

6

People like blaming other people or other things for shortcomings or problems that may or may not be the fault of the object in question. Before this turns into a “Botchmann sucks!” rant, let me ask a few pointed questions:

2.5% grade? Four to six cars? Hmm…

What do you think REAL steam engines of this size could haul up a 2.5% grade? Short answer: about 4 to 6 cars.

It’s not ONLY about the grade either. How heavy are your cars? Is your grade constant? Are there curves on the grade? Do you have free-rolling metal wheelsets on the cars? How’s your power pickup at this point of the layout? If there are curves, are they superelevated? Are you POSITIVE that all of your track is gauged properly? There are MANY variables here that need to be addressed, not just “Bachmann sucks”.

On my last layout my ruling grade was 2.25%, up a curving mainline. I load tested all of my engine types (by manufacturer AND engine model type) to come up with a “tonnage rating” table for my engines, so yardmasters would know how many cars to add to a train heading uphill. In general, 4-6 cars sounds about right for the engines and grade in question, since my Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0s were able to haul 8-10 cars up my grade. Virtually every other engine I had would outperform them, but not by much. That’s not surprising, considering the 2-8-0s were the smallest mainline engines I was running (everything else were various 2-8-2s and 2-8-4s).

[quote]
I did all the usual and suggested things to make sure there was no binding, etc. My conclusion was that either the

7

It’s funny how people’s experience can vary.

My Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0s, one with a Tsunami, one with the stock decoder, both haul 8-10 cars up the 4% curved (22r) grade on my test layout without a big hassle.

My Spectrum 4-4-0 American is limited to 4 cars up the same grade, and slips horribly towards the top.

I agree, that more weight would be useful on these models, but I think for what they are, they’re fine models. More than 10 cars, and you get to doublehead! How awsome is that!

8

I agree very much with Ray, just above me, but I do think I should support the OP in at least one respect…my one recently purchased Spectrum engine is also a poor performer at low speed.

I had heard so many good things about the Spectrum line that I didn’t question myself, but I sure do now. The item is a J Class 4-8-4 that exhibits what I am dismayed to read so many other posters complain about here and on three other forums I visit regularly. Everyone seems to be lamenting new/recent purchases of Bachmann steamers that lurch badly at low speeds.

I knew enough to run it for a while, forwards and backwards. No good. Ran it lots more…no good. Sent it back to my decoder installer repair guy, someone who has tinkered with steamers most of his 62 years…no good. I felt worse when he said he finally gave up on a Spectrum Consolidation 2-8-0 and sold it on ebay. Nothing he could do or think of seemed to work.

So, let’s not be too quick to rebuff the OP…he has some legitimate beefs. I do think he needs to be reminded or educated about real world limitations in engineering when it comes to scale models and what John Armstrong would term “realistic operation.” Supposing that the figure of 2.5% is a legitimate descriptor of the grade, it is a substantial grade. A light engine like a Consolidation would be lucky to pull four or five fully loaded boxcars up such a grade. Darned lucky.

-Crandell

9

In addition to the comments of others, I have to queation the OP about the curves. Is that 38" radius? or is it possibly 18" radius, measured outside to outside of the entire circle (diameter)?

If it is actually 18’ radius, no wonder that giant slows down on the curves, its lucky to go around them at all.

Like others have said, 2.5% grade, that’s pretty steep.

I do not have experiance with the loco in question, but like others who have responded I have a number of Bachmann Spectrum locos and all are good runners and range from good to exceptional in the pulling power department.

I have grades slightly under 2% and my USRA 4-8-2 Heavies easily pull 15-18 cars up them. My 2-8-0’s pull 10-12 up them, and two 2-8-0’s easily pull 40 cars on level track.

Seems there is more to this story then we are getting.

I obvoiusly don’t know the OP, so this is not necessarily directed at him, but it seems Bachmann often gets a bad rap from the “plug and play” crowd. Yes, they have been known to make a dud now and then (which they cheerfully replace without question) and sometimes they require a little adjustment here and there for best performance, but overall, it is hard to beat their combination of price, selection, appearance and quality in my opinion.

I have locos from those more “expensive” brands, and most of them have needed the same kinds of ajustments, tweaks, modifications to make them run to my standards.

I add weight to all my Bachmann tenders, I carefully arrange the loco/tender wiring, I modify the drawbars on some for better clearance for the wires, I add a little weight to the locos where I can, and I could not be happier with the performance results and with the cost of my steam fleet, which is mostly Bachmann Spectrum.

10

Crandell,

You said the magic words, “recent” and “DCC”. your problem is most likely not the loco itself, but the inexpensive Bachmann decoders. As you may recall, I don’t use DCC. The Spectrum locos I have bought with DCC ran very poorly on their dual mode decoders. Decoders removed, jumpers installed the locos run great on my Aristo Craft wireless throttles.

Everyone I know with Bachmann locos and DCC says the best performance is gotten by removing the Bachmann decoder AND circuit board and hard wiring a quality decoder.

While the spectrum locos do not perfrom like a Proto2000 2-8-8-2 (one of the best running locos I have ever seen in 40 years of modeling) they do run well and can be made to run very well in most cases.

As for your friend and his 2-8-0, should have just sent it back and got his free replacement. Out of the twenty plus spectrum locos I own, I have sent three back because they ran poorly right out of

11

The Bachmann Spectrum “Heavy” mountain is a decent puller. It can pull 20-30 40’ cars with a little bit of effort. It’s the only bachmann that I have that has any muscle.

12

I would definitely say that something’s wrong, here. I’ve got 3 Spectrum locos, a 2-8-0, a 2-6-6-2 and a heavy 4-8-2 and all three are excellent performers throughout the speed range, and very good haulers. I’m strictly DC, so I don’t have any experience with the Bachmann decoders, and I can’t comment on that.

But I have 34" minimum radius and grades of up to 2.4% and I’ve never had a problem with the Spectrums not hauling their fair share. In fact, my 2-6-6-2 is a much better hauler than my Proto 2-8-8-2, which cost me a lot more money.

Tom

13

Tom, I double head my Specrum 2-6-6-2’s with my Proto 2-8-8-2’s, they run well together and the combined smoothness and pulling power is great.

Sheldon

14

Sheldon, thanks for your comment. This was a DC engine that I purchased when Klein’s was blowing them out before Christmas. I had the same gentleman install a heavy Tsunami. I am happy with his work, and the engine “sounds” terrific. But neither of us could get the chuff sorted out (decoder not being able to read a wonky motor’s bemf?) or the lurching at speeds under 20 scale mph. He finally made a reed switch and cam from handy materials and it now sounds very good…and still lurches. [:(]

-Crandell

15

Crandell,

A number of the guys in our local group are into DCC and sound, even though I’m not. A number of them have tried installing sound decoders (mostly Tsunami’s) in any number of older or non DCC locos. I have not seen one yet where the bemf/chuff rate thing worked completely, regardless of loco brand (bowser/IHC/Bachmann/etc). A cam is the only answer in my opinion. Heck, that view goes all the way back to the Modeltronics days.

Gee, I’m glad I don’t like onboard sound, what a headache.

As for the lurching, again, I would have sent it back if it didn’t run perfect out of the box. This is a rule all should follow with Bachmann and BLI based on my experiances and those of others I know.

Sheldon

16

I have the bachmann spectrum consolidation, beautiful southern green one, I am thrilled with it, although I do admit that it runs badly at slow speeds, and isn’t a good puller up grades. Still, its a great engine for the money. Superior detail.

Now my brother also bought the spectrum k4 pacific, absolutely superb engine, runs great with DCC, excellent puller, handles grades well, terrific at slow speeds. This engine rivals many BLI products in my opinion, although it is a little light. I would love to get my hands on the BLI platinum series version, but can’t find them anywhere.

The only problem I have with bachmann spectrum engines is the headlight. Its incredibly small and dim, you compare it to the MTH version, and you wonder why is it so hard to get a bright LED light in there?

17

I believe, unless their listing is faulty, that trainworld still has some BLI Platinum K4’s. Internethobbies.com might still have one.

18

Sheldon:

That’s exactly what I do–doublehead them. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have much of an excuse to keep the Proto on my power roster. But boy, howdy, does that little 2-6-6-2 get out and HAUL! [:P]

Tom [:)]

19

Yup, that’s what I’ve got, about 6’ across. It’s a garage layout. Good sized. 24’x24’. 34" minimum, 36" maximum. It’s built for 2-10-2’s and articulateds.

Tom [:)]

20

Cal–

Don’t get TOO envious, it’s in a relatively uninsulated garage and right smack in the middle of
California’s “Pollen Belt.” It’s a MONSTER to keep clean, LOL!

Tom [:D]