Bruce, I think it is “overkill” but I did the same. Special 240 circuit to the panel under benchwork and then 120 to the outlet for transforemers.
Ran a special ground from the panel upstairs to the outside and to the driven ground for main panel for house. That is “overkill” too as all the circuits were bonded back to the main panel. Look to the right of the panel and along the baseboard. You see a regular outlet and a single twist lock four prong outlet with cable feeding the 240. That is how I fed the special circuit. My house was built in 1940 and see the wide baseboards with molding on top.
It looks like what you’ve done makes good electrical sense to me. Sure, those old ZW’s won’t benefit one bit from grounding since they have 2 prong plugs. On the other hand it’s the safety factor for the miriad of modern wall worts and power bars, not to mention a proper ground for TMCC that’s important.
The overkill in your system seems to be the power you have available for your size of layout. I mean, 3 ZW’s? Holy cow, man! Are you planning on running a real GG1? [;)]
Firstly, let me formally appologize to you for hyjacking this topic. It was my original intention to offer sound wiring advice ( from what I’ve read elsewhere ) concerning DCS since I knew this was the type of CC system you were considering for your layout. No matter which CC system you initially decide on, wiring for DCS as the MTH manual and Mr. Haislip advise will give you the option of adding TMCC later and have it all work together.
lionelsoni,
Mr. Haislip’s medium size layout (19’ X 19’ ) had to be wired 3 times. Intially wired in the conventional mannerusing bus runs and toggle switches to power blocks. To quote him " Ive become quite familiar with DCS in the past year, due to my work as a " beta tester" for MTH’s 3.0 DCS software (MTH asked me to test it’s upgraded software and report any problems before it was released )"
It was rewired the second time using solid core wire in the home run style for the reason of adding DCS. At that time he eliminated his control panel to facilitate equal run wiring, cruitial to good DCS performance. He deterined through pre-planning that the size of his layout would require 2 TIU’s to operate correctly. Poor signal problems were, as he puts it “disasterous”. I believe he determine the poor signal problems using an Aple iPod digital music player to monitor his DCS signal strength ( a method described in a sidebar to this article).
Once rewired with stranded core wire all his signal problems were gone. It’s this type of “process of elimination” that proves to me stranded wire is the way to go with DCS. I couldn’t begin to explain why it works, Bob. It’s simply what MTH and Mr. Haislip recommend.
Bruce, the TMCC Command Base requires a GOOD ground. Not worried about the transformers. Without a good ground for the TMCC, you will get poor radio signal.
Bruce, I agree that getting improved operation after doing nothing more than simply replacing solid with stranded is meaningful. Yet I remain skeptical because of the lack of any rationale for the improvement. I imagine that something else may have been changed too, probably inadvertently, or that the improvement was only imagined in some way. For evidence of the latter, check out this site that I came across yesterday:
It’s an ad for a $649 power cable for audio equipment, made of exotic silver wire with gold-plated connectors. The testimonials are bizarre, to my mind.
In any case, stranded wire is not very much more expensive, it certainly works as well as solid wire in every electrical respect, and it’s easier to work with–I use it myself, for that reason. So anyone who wants to, go for it!
I take it you have never had the pleasure to experience a $100,000+ audio system… that is what these people are discussing. I have only heard something in this realm once and that was back in 1989 while in Germany. These systems are flat out incredible. The closest I have heard in the states was a demo room done with nothing but McIntosh Audio Equipment. I have desired nothing more than a home theater done with Bang-Olufsen speakers driven by McIntosh A/V equipment… one day… one day…
Yikes! $649 for an extention cord? And since when did silver become " the best known conductor"? I thought gold held that position. Maybe it’s the 99.999% pure silver thing? Hypothetically, if I were an audiophile and bought this item then found no marked improvement in “organic” sound the seller would find himself hanging from his own product [;)]
I understand what you’re saying though. Electricity being the great unseen power leaves lots of room for questionable claims and theories. I’m still struggling to understand electricity enough so that it doesn’t bite me, or become the great SEEN power in the form of sparks and flame.
I have no doubt that the whole thing would cost that much, if the power cord alone costs $650. I’ll believe that stranded wire helps DCS before I’ll believe that that much money and silver wire makes any real difference. Some people are just insane in odd ways. Would you believe that I know grown men who spend large sums on toy trains!
Bruce, silver is a better electrical conductor than gold.
See! I’m learned something new. Or did I? This reminds me of silver soldering which I first heard of while thumbing through Model Railroader back in the 60’s.
Luckily for audiophiles they don’t have to resort to using gold wire power cords when those cheap ($649) silver ones do a better job.
I believe gold to be a relatively poor conductor…but it is excellent in resisting corrosion inheritant in copper, and silver. Ask Chief about his gold hooks! Still shinny!
Also, the fancy schmancy audio cables used in high priced audio actually improves the sound of the system. (I believe) You’ll have to try it for yourself if you even care…this stuff can get expensive. Compare a small piece of THHN (14 gauge house wire) with just about any audio cable. But, if you like the sound of your stereo now, don’t fix it.
With the trains you only care about electricity getting from point A to point B…this is simple physics, audio cable is for audio. If you can’t HEAR the difference don’t buy it.
Stranded vs solid wire for DCS. There seems to be missing important information regarding the gentleman who rewired his layout 3 times. Our former club layout was wired with solid copper conductors back in 2002. I used #12 romex style house wire (yellow jacket 12/4 NM-B - 3 conductors with ground - white/black/red insulated conductors and bare ground wire - white and black used for track 1, red and grd used for track 2, etc.) from home depot on a 30 x 45 foot layout in a home run/star pattern wiring with 6 distribution panels that then had #16 solid copper wire to the rails. Each of these 4 wire NM-B cables terminated at the TIUs (2 TIUs used). We had DCS signal levels of 10 all the way around.
What is missing from the description is the wire geometry or other factors. Was paired wire used (As we got in the NM-B) or was it loose/individual conductors. Regardless, in addition to the wire change, something was intentionally or unintentionally changed between tries 2 and 3 that affected the DCS performance. Maybe it was addition of light bulbs to terminate the signal and control reflections. Maybe it was something else. It is not the wire itself.
As I have written in the past, DCS is a radio signal that uses the twin lead (balanced pair) wire as a transmission line. Recall the old twin lead TV antenna wire. Note that it had a controlled spacing between the two conductors (to achieve a 300 ohm impedance to match the yagi/log periodic antenna on the roof). DCS needs the same basic geometry for best performance. The DCS patent is quite broad, but describes a 100’s of kilobaud spread spectrum signal that would not be a very high frequency. Thus the need to tightly control the twin lead spacing and line impedance are not as critical as if it were a higher frequency television signal. Thus any good quality paired conductor wire (appropriately sized for the necessary current) will work well for DCS.
If you get a chance and have the issue maybe you could read the article in the July '05 issue and report back on your findings. The author gives the exact types of wires used and if I recall makes no mention of any other modifications or add ons other than switching from solid to stranded core.
Read the article when it came out and looked at it again just now. I do not believe the premise that only stranded wire works well for DCS. It goes against well established theory. Again as evidence - our own layout which is larger than the one mentioned in the article used solid copper wire with no problems.
BTW - the article mentions 14 ga twisted solid copper wire. I have not seen such a thing myself. A quick internet search did not produce a hit. Maybe Lionelsoni has seen such a thing?
