I’m looking to build my own or purchase a wireless or corded handheld DC throttle for my new HO scale layout. I’ve considered DCC, but with 70+ locomotives in my fleet, the cost of purchasing and installing decoders is prohibitive.
Any suggestions for DC throttles or build-it-yourself solutions?
Cheers,
Chris
Chris.
So you have fewer locos than I do. Still no reason to give up on DCC.
Our club layout before we changed to DCC was powered with 5 DC cabs with Aristocraft wireless throttles. They worked good but ate batteries like a rabid bear stuck in a meat wagon. You were lucky during a 4 hour op session if you changed batteries twice. We used rechargeable batteries and had a bank of 6 chargers going during a session. Sometimes the system overloaded and strange things like runaways and direction changes would occur.
Pete
Chris:
Here’s a page with loads of circuits to build. There are several versions of DC throttles included.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CircuitIndex.html#1
Joe
I built the below one some years ago. The pulse width allows for some fine tuning of speed.
http://www.awrr.com/throttle_Thorne.html
Rich
If you are looking for ‘wireless’ DC throttles, the Aristocraft one is used by a number of folks. There are several variations of the system, so hopefully some of the ‘experts’ will chime in.
Jim
Below is another link.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/Index.html
I have seen kids running a layout at the Big E train show that uses the Aristocraft wireless throttle. There is a fellow in these forums who also uses it and really likes it. That might be your best bet for DC wireless.
Use Google to search for Aristocraft Train Engineer Throttles
Rich
]
I use DCC but I see your position. Stay with DC and enjoy it.
Rich
Oh man, the Youth in Model Railroading group uses the Aristocraft wireless throttles when the layout is set to DC mode. They work fine, however there is a delay in pressing the buttons and when the loco responds. At first I thought someone had momentum enabled but that was not the case. It just feels like it.
The children have also broken off the antennas, and we have had to constantly fix them. I don’t know if that is because the units are cheaply constructed or if it is just that the children are that careless and hard on them. I could assume a mature person would not have this problem.
P.S. Don’t let a number of locomotives prevent you from making the DCC plunge. I think I probably had about that many when I first went to command control (CTC in 1979). I have NEVER gotten them all converted, and even the ones I did convert had to be reconvered to Railcommand and then to DCC. I’m guessing that now more than 30 years later (wow, has it really been that long!) I’ve still got more DC locos than DCC. Had I waited until I could afford to convert the whole fleet I would still be flipping panel power routing switches instead of running my trains.
Pete,
The reason your club had so much trouble with batteries in the Aristo Throttles is because they were not designed to work with rechargeable Ni-Cad batteries.
Rechargable Ni-Cad batteries put out less voltage than regular AA batteries, reduced voltage dramaticly increases the current used in equipment designed for full 1.5 volt batteries.
I have 8 Aristo Train Engineer throttles on my layout and the transmitter batteries last months at a time. Another modeler I know has 6 of them on his HO layout, regular AA batteries last months on his layout as well.
Sheldon
If there is a delay with the Aristo Throttles, they simply are not set up correctly. The Aristo throttle has 10 channels on 10 frequencies, to avoid any delay or conflict each different throttle used on the same layout should be programed to a different channel and a different frequency.
This gives 10 different interference/delay proof throttle codes - Eaxmple, the first throttle should be programed to Freq #1, channel #1, the second to freq #2, channel #2, and so on. They will not interfere or delay each other if set up like this. The Aristo instructions do explain this, but maybe not in
That is good info for more than just wireless throttles. I mean I knew that 1.2V vs 1.5V of an alkaline if I would have just stopped to think about it. My old 5-watt portable CB has room for two additional batteries if Ni-Cads are used.
Chris,
You might want to look into the new Aristo Craft Revolution. I use the Aristo Craft 10 Channel Train Engineer wireless radio throttles and like them very much. So do several other HO modelers I know.
The 10 channel Train Engineer is currently out of production, but Aristo my bring them back next year. Their new product, the Revolution is even more advanced yet still affordable. I have one but have yet to really use it on my layout.
A search of this fourm, the Aristo forum, and the Bachmann forum will provide lots of info I have posted about using Aristo wireless throttles in HO. Feel free to ask any specific questions.
Sheldon
NiCad and NiMh rechargeable batteries are 1.2 volts, each, not 1.5 volts and that can make a lot of difference if the equipment is not designed to use them.
Rich
The Aristocraft radio throttle is also marketed under the Crest name. AFAIK, they’re identical.
I purchased one to use with my large scale trains, but also used it as one of my two DC cabs on my layout briefly before I converted to DCC. It works as advertised and makes a good substitute if you’re not making the leap to DCC. I can see it working well for one-person operation, but I suspect the combination of multiple channels and using block switches to assign power requires disciplined operators to avoid confusion in multi-operator situations.
Don’t confuse these with another similar system offered by the same player(s), which is a DC radio system that uses special decoders in each loco to pick up the signal, so is much like DCC except uses DC. The reviews on it weren’t good and, I believe, it’s been discontinued
Actually, with a well designed advanced DC cab control system like I use, and have built for others, there are no “block toggles” and it works very well with multiple operators.
Crest and Aristo are one in the same. All Aristo electrical items carry the “sub brand” Crest.
As I explained above, set to the correct channel/freq configuration there is no delay or cross talk and up to 10 throttles can be used at the same time. With the new Revolution it is even more.
Advanced DC systems use a number of different means to assign cabs to track sections other than “toggles”. With the system I have developed, with a CTC dispatcher on duty, engineers have an experience just like DCC, they walk around with their throttle and control their loco - with one difference - they have to obey signals and train orders like in real life.
OR, without a dispatcher they can walk around the layout and assign their cab to progressive track sections with the alignment of a few turnouts and the push of a few buttons which are repeated arou
Sheldon,
I don’t doubt that you’ve built a great system, but that’s something that you don’t unpack from the box when you buy one of these throttles. Most folks are probably like me. They have an existing DC block system with two or more cabs. They plug the Aristo/Crest into a cab in place of the DC throttle it had. You’re good to go via radio.
But most won’t make any changes in the DC system. In my case, that would mean that someone could leave the block they vacated assigned to their cab. If someone crosses the gap from a block they control into one they don’t, there’s potential for a runaway. With just two cabs, not likely a big deal. But if you have one of those rotary switch set-ups with 8 cabs, for instance, it’ll be anyone’s guess who has control without physically looking at the block power switch to verify what it’s set to, then matching that up with who has which controller. Plenty of opportunity for things to go wrong with that.
Which is not to say that this doesn’t work great for the way you have your system set-up. However, when confronted with that level of wiring complexity and work, most who need that complex of a control system will simply conclude that DCC is gonna be easier to keep track of. Very few people take on building complex, multicab control system nowadays. Those that need such tend to go with DCC largely to avoid exactly that - the wiring, YMMV of course. t DCC does eliminate some of the costs, as well as most of the hassles of complex DC wiring (I know, not as much as some lead you to believe, but some nonetheless.)
I certainly agree that the radio throttles eliminate the hassle of cords and are worth it for that alone. But that’s really all they do that’s really different than old school DC control systems, while introducing the problem I noted, since with radio you can’t “follow the cord” to see who is running a particular section of track.
[quote user=“mlehman”]
Sheldon,
I don’t doubt that you’ve built a great system, but that’s something that you don’t unpack from the box when you buy one of these throttles. Most folks are probably like me. They have an existing DC block system with two or more cabs. They plug the Aristo/Crest into a cab in place of the DC throttle it had. You’re good to go via radio.
But most won’t make any changes in the DC system. In my case, that would mean that someone could leave the block they vacated assigned to their cab. If someone crosses the gap from a block they control into one they don’t, there’s potential for a runaway. With just two cabs, not likely a big deal. But if you have one of those rotary switch set-ups with 8 cabs, for instance, it’ll be anyone’s guess who has control without physically looking at the block power switch to verify what it’s set to, then matching that up with who has which controller. Plenty of opportunity for things to go wrong with that.
Which is not to say that this doesn’t work great for the way you have your system set-up. However, when confronted with that level of wiring complexity and work, most who need that complex of a control system will simply conclude that DCC is gonna be easier to keep track of. Very few people take on building complex, multicab control system nowadays. Those that need such tend to go with DCC largely to avoid exactly that - the wiring, YMMV of course. t DCC does eliminate some of the costs, as well as most of the hassles of complex DC wiring (I know, not as much as some lead you to believe, but some nonetheless.)
I certainly agree that the radio throttles eliminate the hassle of cords and are worth it for that alone. But that’s really all they do that’s really different than old school DC control systems, while introducing the problem I noted, since with radio you can’t “follow the cord” to see who is running a particular section of track.
I saw the OP seems to understand DCC that is why I did not try to “Convert” him to DCC. Yes, it would be an ego thing for me if I did convert him but that is clearly what he does not want.
I belong to many train forums and I see quite a few who switch over to DCC and many issues with wiring, locos, reverse loops, booster districts, etc. Some spend a lot of time trouble shooting instead of running trains.
Rich
Sheldon,
I wasn’t trying to “sell him on DCC” just trying to point out that you’re not exactly presenting a turn-key DC solution to an issue that basically goes away with DCC – block control – presuming that as what he was worried about. The OP asked about a simple thing, what was available wireless or wired in the way of DC cabs. Without the wire or your complex add-on to the basic system, there are potential issues that he should be aware of in choosing a DC wireless cab.
If it’s a two-cab DC system, then not a big deal with the wireless DC radio cabs AS I SPECIFICALLY NOTED TO AVOID ANY UNNECESSARY READING BETWEEN THE LINES.
Since he didn’t ask about wiring a complex DC system in conjunction with the throttle question, I presume most of what you’ve gone on about at length is at least as equally unresponsive to his original question as anything I wrote. [:)]
But I doubt there’s much point in my playing web police over the matter. I’ll leave that to others who seem to get their kicks out of that on a regular basis.
Mike, That is disingenuous, prior to your post I said NOTHING about my advanced DC control system.
YOU interjected a comparison of DCC to “using block switches”. That was what prompted my response mentioning more advanced DC systems.
All my prior posts addressed the OP’s basic question or delt directly with misinformation posted by others - battery life, channel cross talk, antenna, etc when using the the Aristo Train Engineer.
My post to the OP about his original question:
"Chris,
You might want to look into the new Aristo Craft Revolution. I use the Aristo Craft 10 Channel Train Engineer wireless radio throttles and like them very much. So do several other HO modelers I know.</