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Wisconsin train collision injures two, prompting temporary evacuations
The sun was low on the horizon at 8:30 P.M…
Could that have caused an optical problem for the crew?
Mr. Molony, other railfan theories I’ve heard about this incident suggest that PTC would not have prevented this. But I won’t go into details until they are reported in the media.
Those are some pretty tall assumptions. We’d best wait until the investigation of this incident is complete.
the signal system should have prevented this.
They don’t say what the CN freight was carrying. With 98 cars, it likely was a unit train, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be oil. Does anyone know if oil cars were involved?
The odd thing is that I checked 7 articles and 5 videos, and none mentioned the contents of the CN train, other than 3 cars of fracking sand that derailed. If oil cars are involved, are they deliberately trying to keep that quiet these days to avoid negative publicity?
But I’m getting ahead of myself. Before I get suspicious about PR intentions, I’d like to find out what was in that CN train. It’s still wheat season, and other grains, so there are lots of possibilities. Still, it bothers me that all the reports I’ve read neglect to mention what was carried by a 98 car train involved in a two-train crash. They tell us what was in the W&S train. Why not the CN?
Based on this report, I have to assume that Positive Train Control (PTC) would have been able to stop the CN train and prevent this accident.
Based on this report, I have to assume that Positive Train Control (PTC) would have been able to stop the CN train and prevent this accident.
Does PTC override the engineer? Like a driver in a car , when the signal turns red will the car stop? Was there a PTC system in southern California when the engineer ran through a red signal ? The red signal don’t mean much if you pay attention to them, train or car.
It seems to me that a non-PTC track could be wired to the PTC system on the other track in sich a way that the PTC controlled train would be able to stop. The non-PTC track would need indicators of track occupancy a long ways from the junction but that should be doable. Second, let’us look at the bright side of an accident in which oil or other hazardous liguids are involved. There was no fire or significant leakage. That doesn’t get reported because it is not sensational.
Good to know William McFadden. I grew up around there but haven’t been at that location in years. Doesn’t change my analysis regarding PTC preventability though. It’s still an interlocking between a line that’s PTC mandated and one that’s not.
Fond du Lac-Champaign is a manifest. Some Alberta tar sands “oil” moves in CN manifests, but it’s more like an asphalt load than volatile Bakken crude, which doesn’t run on this route. There’s an interesting question as to whether this accident is PTC preventable or not. Presumably (and keep in mind everything is presumption until facts appear) the CN main qualifies as a route to be PTC equipped (based on the TIH clause of the mandate) and the WSOR is not. Also presumably, the interlocking at the diamond, notably the track occupancy subsystem, was in working order (failures can happen of course, but are much rarer than operator error). So given these presumptions, the locomotives on the CN train would have been PTC equipped, and their braking curves would have stopped the train before the end of authority, which would have been the boundary of that interlocking IF the WSOR train had authority to occupy that diamond. So in that scenario, PTC preventable. But let’s try the other scenario: the. CN train had authority to occupy the interlocking. As far as it’s PTC onboard system can tell, it’s braking curve extends well past the interlocking once a heavy 98 car manifest gets within a mile of the location in question. Now, if the WSOR train happens on the scene, there is no PTC system to prevent an inattentive or “sun blinded” crew from running the absolute signal guarding the interlocking. Yes, as soon as the train occupies the plant, the CN signals will flip to red, and the PTC overlay will attempt to stop the manifest. But by this time it may be too late to stop the train before encroaching on the crossing. There will be many non-PTC qualified lines crossing PTC equipped lines at grade. This is apparently a hole big enough to drive a freight train through. Which has undoubtedly been considered. But deemed to rare to justify the expense of mandating that any short line that crosses or connects to a PTC qualified line must also equip their locomotive fleet
Mr. Uyehata, does one assume that your southern California question refers to the deadly head-on collision between a commuter train and a freight train? If so, are you really not aware that that wreck was the main causal event for PTC?
98 cars means it was a unit train? Railroads don’t run 98 car manifests? What is with the obsession with oil? Do you want them to report the entire consists of both trains? Or are you hoping it was an oil train in order to scream about the dangers of oil by rail? And nowhere did I read what was on the entire WSOR train. But I suppose nowadays if a train carries even one tank of oil in its consist its a catastrophe waiting to happen according to some. As has been said above in other posts, lets let the investigators do their job.
Mr. Roberts…from every video I viewed plus photos seemed to indicate it was a mixed train. You should not assume that a 98 car train has to be a unit train. A lot of traffic on that main. Head of the Lakes traffic from Duluth plus Twin Cities trains. The oil spilled was from the CN unit that tipped over.
This isn’t a diamond crossing anymore. The two lines come together with a switch, share about 68 feet of single track then split apart again with a switch.
Uh, Mr. Bates…5000 gallons of diesel fuel spilled, prompting a local safety evac. But yes, beside minor injuries to one crew, this was not a catastrophe.
98 cars does not mean it a unit train, what is it with you people, worked for the WC/CN over 10 years. Been threw this area many many times. Hope TRAINS will report what happened when it’s released.