A lot of my cars will wobble going tru turnouts, most cars, all trun outs. I can not see why. What should I be looking for? Or is some wobble normal?
It dosn’t cause derailments, or any other issues. Just don’t look right.
What do you think? live with it?
Most are Peco and a few altas ,If that makes a difference
Most out of the box cars are underweight, would be my guess. Yes, you can check to see if your cars wheels are out of gauge, but most trucks are in gauge, even the cheapies. Some Atlas turnouts can be too shallow next to the guard rails or in the frogs, but that doesn’t explain the Peco issue.
Besides the above advice, the classic advice is to check the tightness / looseness of the trucks. Typically one should tighten one truck a fair amount, backing off so it swivels easily (of course) but that this tighter one wobbles minimally. That one tends to set the actual (maximum) wobble. The second truck should be loosened a bit more, to allow enough wobble to accommodate track variations that need it. If both trucks are relatively loose, the wobble may be quite noticeable.
Here’s my method and there’s no cure all woes weighing of the cars involved.
Tighten the truck screws down tight -the trucks will not move,then back the screws off 2 1/2 turns that should end the wobbles unless your cars have deep flanges like AHM,TYCO Bachmann and other train set cars then I suggest either replacing the trucks and body mounting the couplers or just replace the wheel sets.
Also check for foreign matter in the switch like ballast and check the frog and points of the switch for smoothness-I use my pinky finger to feel for rough spots.
Maybe some of these from Proto87 would help.
Hi UNCLEBUTCH.
Having cars wobble is quite prototypical. Several years ago we were in Niagara Falls, Ontario at the top of Clifton Hill. At that time the railroad still ran along the top of the hill going through town. A freight train came down the track. At first it was moving pretty slowly but as the train passed it also started to accelerate. There was some obviously poor track a block or so from where we were standing and as the train went faster the wobbling and lurching over the bad track became very pronounced. In fact, I couldn’t believe the cars were staying on the track although I’m sure they were no where near the point of derailing. It actually scared me a bit since we were (perhaps stupidly) standing quite close to the track.
I’m not suggesting that you leave the problem alone if you don’t like the way it looks. I would start by setting the truck screws as suggested, i.e. one truck with very little wobble and the other truck more free.
Dave
Like the KD washer wouldn’t those washers raise the coupler height?
Larry:
The website says the car stabilizers are only .010" thick, and they suggest that the change in couple height is negligable. No adjustment of the couplers is necessary. Here is the ‘how to’ page:
http://www.proto87.com/fast-and-easy-riders-car-stabilizers.html
Dave
South Penn:
Thanks for the link to the Proto87 car stabilizers.
The page you referenced shows two different products. One is a ‘truck stabilizer’ and the other is a ‘truck gimbal’. The gimbals are quite a bit more expensive but I can’t find any explanation of the difference between the two. They look the same. In fact, I’d say that the same picture has been used for both products. Any ideas?
Dave
Sorry Dave, I don’t have a clue.
SouthPenn
I think I’ll send them a note to find out.
Dave
Dave,
The reason I was asking was the KD washer is .010" and .015" thick and that caused me to do some head scratching so,I thought I would ask.
I really like the idea for my older Roundhouse 50’ boxcars that doesn’t have a truck mounting king pin since I don’t and never did like the idea of the truck being attached to the directly floor instead of a king pin like Athearn,Atlas,Walthers etc uses…Roundhouse did use a king pin on the newer cars not sure of when the king pin was added.
Still,I’m tempted to order 2 packs for testing-can’t hurt right?
Hi Larry.
I understand your point about the stabilizers being the same thickness as the Kadee gray washers. I have used the Kadee washers on most of my fleet of about 200 Athearn freight cars. However, I don’t recall too many cars where I only used one .010" washer to adjust the coupler height. Usually it was at least two .015" red washers and maybe a .010" on top of that.
That raises another question. What if you already have shim washers installed on a car. Do you take them all out, or maybe just one at each end? I’ll send Andrew at Proto87 another e-mail asking about that.
I think the stabilizers are worth considering if you have a problem. I won’t really know that until I actually have a layout to run the cars on.
Dave
OK ,I now have someplace to look ,trucks and weight. Thanks
I,m trying hard to understand just ‘‘what’’ those stabilizers are doing .If thire ment to snug up the truck, would thy not, stop free movement?
The small raised area on each side of the stabilizers touch the crossframe of the trucks. This prevents the cars from having a lot of side to side wobbling.
The NRMA standard starts at 1", but I don’t have any cars that short
3" = 2.5 oz; for every 1/2" increase in length the weight increases 1/4 oz, 4" = 3 oz
5" = 3.5
6" = 4
I am just starting to work my way through my car roster and 1 - 1.3 ounces light is fairly routine.
Hi everyone:
With regard to South Penn’s suggestion about using the Proto87 stabilizers, Andy at Proto87 got back to me first thing this morning (note the great customer service!- no, I’m not affiliated).
First, the difference between the ‘stabilizer’ washers and the ‘gimbal’ washers:
The stabilizer washers are used to allow one truck to to pivot side to side and the other truck to pivot front to back. That is why they are glued in position with one having the raised pivot points pointing from side to side and the other having the pivot points pointing front to back. The gimbal washers have pivot points on both sides and the points are offset by 90 degrees. That allows the truck to pivot in all directions. Note that only one gimbal is used per car, and the other truck should have a stabilizer mounted with the points facing side to side to keep the car straight up and down. The combination of one stabilizer and one gimbal gives the car the best riding characteristics, but using just the stabilizers on each end with one pointed across the car and the other pointed in line with the car works well too.
In cases where Kadee washers have already been installed to get the coupler height correct the stabilizer washers and gimbal washers can simply be substituted for the Kadees. The stabilizers are .010" thick and the gimbals are .020" thick.
Andy did not answer my question about whether the stabilizers/gimbals can be used in combination with Kadee washers to get the right coupler height, so I sent him another e-mail.
Dave
UNCLEBUTCH:
The trucks are not screwed down tight when you are using the Proto87 stabilizers. The instructions say to tighten the truck screws to the point where there is no movement in the truck and then back the screws off 1/2 turn.
Dave
Hello Dave.
Thanks for the update…1/2 turn seems to be to tight unless those stabilizers makes up the difference in the truck swing?
While none of my older Roundhouse cars wobble with my normal method (tighten down to no movement then back off 2 1/2 turns) I think I will give them a try since I don’t like the trucks attached directly to the floor.
Sure, fair enough. Except an HO car wobbles fast and a full size car wobbles slowly. The Ho car wobble looks toylike and unprototypical. There lies the rub and why people don’t like it.
On any kits I built, I would file down the lip on the bolster which would allow me to tighten the screw down to the point the truck will not pivot. Just back off the screw enough to allow the truck to pivot freely but not rock. That generally gets rid of most of the toy like wobble.
Now as for turnouts, I haven’t noticed discussion on one of the other root causes, which is some turnouts have a large gap where the frog is, and that creates a “pot hole” effect, so that wheels tend to drop down and then back up. Better quality turnouts have shorter gaps so are better in that regard but another trick modelers do is to add a shim, or glue a shim into the grove where the frog is so that the flange rides on the shim where the gap in the frog is. This minimizes the pot hole effect, which will cause those loose mounted truck freight cars to wobble a lot.