Questio 2.)[:D]
Is it true that Diesel trains were not used in world war 1 or world war 2?
If so can you confirm a site that i can read into for this information or you could just let me know and il work it out from there.
Question 1.)
At low speeds diesel engines have very little torque (turning force) and when stopped they have no turning force at all; engines have to be spinning to provide some traction.
Is that also True?
Thank you[:D]
Question 2:
The Great War (WW1)
I don’t know of any diesels on the “home front” USA
There were gas mechanicals on the narrow gauge (2’ gauge) “trench railroads” in France. The most numerous on the allied side.
British
20 HP Simplex
40 HP Simplex
“Crewe Tractor” - built in London & Nortwestern Railway’s Crewe Works from Model T Ford componets
There were also some French locos
World War 2 USA (not a complete list)
Switchers: Electro Motive SW1, NW2, ALCO SW1, SW2, Baldwin VO 660, VO 1000, DS4-4-4, Fairbanks Morse H10-44
Road Switcher: ALCO RS1
Carbody Freight (B-B trucks): Electro Motive FT
Carbody Passenger (A1A -A1A trucks): Electro Motive E7, ALCO DL 109, DL 110
I don’t have a list of US diesels sent overseas, but know ALCO RSD1 were used in Iran and the Russians got some too.
The following site lists US and Canidian diesel loco build dates:
The New Haven took delivery of DL-109’s and some switcher locomotives throughout WWII.
There were not any diesel during WWI – it was all steam.
I don’t understand your engine question. The diesel engine is constantly turning and creating electricity even at IDLE throttle position. The engine only powers a generator which makes the electricity for the traction motors that turn the wheels. The traction motors are what create traction…
Yes, in WW1 as far as USA was concerned no diesels were in any mainline use, though some internal combustion powered passenger cars (“doodlebugs”) were, mostly in branchline services (if memory serves). The Minneapolis, Saint Paul, Rochester & Dubuque Electric Tractions Lines (an interurban that never got around to stringing the wires) was 100% internal combustion just before WW1 but it was a shortline, hardly a mainline (probably not even a Class 1).
In WW2, diesels were common but not the majority-steam still ruled. Not that the RR’s wouldn’t have ordered more diesels of they had a chance! But material & production restrictions kept steam locomotive orders happening throughout the war.
Re the torque question: Yes, an internal combustion engine has to be moving to produce any power. So a locomotive needs some way to let the engine spin even when it’s so loaded down so as to bearly move. Enter the electric (traction) motor. It can exert full power even when not turning at all. (It can also melt into a puddle of slag in the process but that’s another issue.) So, the diesel can spin the generator, even if the locomotive isn’t able to budge an inch.
I recall reading that part of the reasoning behind diesels on the trench railways (and some of these were in fact petrol engined) was that they made far less smoke than a steam loco and could be more effectively armoured. See http://www.blackhamtransfers.com/55/MalSavKits/ArmouredSimplex.jpg for a photo of one of these - the crew would enter via large doors on the bodyside. The idea of driving a steam loco with such armour doesn’t bear thinking about - internal temperatures would be ridiculously high. There are a few of these locos preserved in various states, some industrial users removed all or some of the armour to improve visibility, leaving what appeared to be a frame with wheels and an engine bolted to it!
The EMD carbody passenger engines (A1A-A1A) available and in use during WWII were the EA, E1, E2, E3, E4, E5 and E6 models. All were built and delivered prior to wartime production restrictions going into effect (i.e. 1942).
The E7 was not introduced until after the war.
GE built some experimental Diesels during WWI, but the war was over when the first test unit left Erie. They built an armored unit for the Army Quartermaster corps as part of the program, and it did not perform as GE had hoped. GE went to the expense of buying the units it had sold from this program to protect sales of the GE/Ingersoll-Rand/Alco diesels that were successful.
In WW2 Japan had some Diesels. Maybe Germany they had Diesel engines I know that. I have also heard about the German using a Diesel engine’s exhaust for “other things” but let’s not talk about that.
Well true diesels didn’t come about until the 20’s, however as was noted earlier there some lines in Iowa and MN that had something similar. First was the Dan Patch Electric Lines running between Minneapolis and Northfield MN, who ran “oil electrics” beginning in about 1908. They were planning to be an electric line, and GE / Westinghouse put an oil-burning electrical generator into some boxcab electrics so that they could run trains until the costly overhead wire could be set up. Turns out they never did put up the overhead wire. Oddly, they didn’t own steam ( I believe) until the owner, Col Savage (who owned Dan Patch) died in 1918 and the RR was reorganized as the Minneapolis, Northfield and Southern. They sold off the oil-electric freight engines (one went to an electric RR in MN, and eventually was saved and restored) and went to all steam for freight (but still used the windsplitters and other self-propelled passenger equipment) until about 1940 when they started getting Baldwin diesels, eventually become fully dieselized (again!?) in about 1950 or 51.
The War Production Board relaxed the passenger diesel restriction toward the end of 1944. EMDs E7 locomotives started production in 2/45 and were delivered to Alton, B&O, SAL, C&NW, FEC, L&N, GN, ACL and NYC before the end of the war. Diesel production dates from A J Kristopans EMD Serial Number Page. [;)]
Germany did have some WW2 diesels - the V188s. These were twin units (arranged as two 1-co wheel arrangement locos coupled back to back) intended to haul the big rail-mounted guns. Marklin (and presumably Trix) and Lima have offered them in HO while Arnold (I think) offered an N scale example at one time.
Thankyou to both of you for the correction/clarification. Due to its late war production dates, I should not have included the E7 in my list. Per the intent of the question, the E7 is a post war locomotive.
Hi everyone! [:)]
There were also the V 12, V 15, V 120 (V 3201 - Diesel-pneumatic), V 140 (V 16 - Diesel-hydraulic), and the VT 877 a.k.a. „Fliegender Hamburger“ (literally “Flying Hamburger”; no, not the food!). [:D]
Well, I’m not reliably whether the last one was driven by Diesel or simply Combustion engines.
V 120, V 140, V 188 (D 311 - Diesel-electric twin), and the VT 877 were available from Märklin and Trix.
For some time V 120, V 140, and V 188 were also offered together in a bundle named „Diesel-Urahnen“ (lit. “Diesel ancestors”) in 1999/2000. Stock-numbers were Märklin 372003 and Trix T22449.
Diesel locomotive production during WW2 came under the jurisdiction of the War Production Board. Passenger locomotives were off limits, EMD was allowed to build only road freight locomotives (FT’s) and the other builders (Alco, Baldwin, FM) were restricted to switchers. The WPB also decided who built the switchers once a railroad’s order was approved, a road could ask for Alcos and wind up getting Baldwins. FM didn’t build any switchers until 1944, prior to that, its OP engines were earmarked for submarines and other marine uses.
The U.S. Army requisitioned all the Alco RS-1’s built at the time from MILW, St.Andrews Bay Line, RI and a few others, and sent them overseas. They however did not serve in Europe, but Iran and the Middle East. There was a story back in the '80’s in TRAINS about them, including a story about an engine crew falling asleep on a steep grade and their RS-1 actually “digging” a trench in the rail. When they woke up, the train wouldn’t budge, even though they had it notched out.[:0][:D][:p][;)]
In WW2 diesels would be maybe 10% of locomotives around, at most, but they were around. EMD E-unit diesels like the E-3 predated the war and were fairly common, as were EMD, Alco, and Baldwin switchers. FT-103’s successful tour of the US in 1939-40 caused many railroads to order F unit diesels in 1940-41. But after the WPB took over, diesels were rationed out, so many roads ordered diesels and got steam. (One exception was the Minneapolis & St.Louis, who ordered 2-6-6-2’s and got diesels instead - they would have had to rebuild at least one bridge to run the mallets, and the gov’t decided it would be more efficient to send them diesels rather than allocate all the steel needed for the bridge rebuilding program.)
Whoa! Articulateds on the Louie? My impression was that is was a thinly trafficed granger road (like so many others). Did they just run a few large tonnage trains (a’la Chicago Great Western) or did they really have that much traffic? I’ve never really studied the M&St.L, so I don’t know-enlightenment, please!
During WW1 Baldwin made 60 cm gauge, 35 HP and 50 HP gas (petrol) mechanicals for the US Army. 170 of them (61 35 HP and 109 50 HP) were sent overseas. 19 (50 HP) were used at bases in the US.
The US Army also ordered 300 gas mechanicals from Whitcomb, but non were ready in time for use in the war.
Source Narrow Gauge to No Mans Land by Richard Dunn.
The proposed M&StL 2-6-6-4’s were to be relatively light, probably because of the lighter rail on its lines, they were definitely going to be a lot smaller than an N&W A. I would assume that operations would have been Deramus-style, a handful of heavy tonnage trains per day.
They were based upon Seaboard Air Line’s 2-6-6-4s, which in turn had some design elements based upon the experience of the Pittsburgh & West Virginia’s 2-6-6-4s. BTW why not call the type “Piedmont”, since all but P&WV used them on such terrain. B&O bought some ex-Seaboard 2-6-6-4s following WWII, but used them the same way P&WV did.
