Ya'll warned me... I didn't listen... what now?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Here’s the scoop… On December 29th, I bought 6 brand new Atlas switches on a Buy It Now auction. On talking to the seller, he said he also had 19 ‘used’ #4 switches, but they were in excellent condition, and if I wanted them, he’d let them go for $4.99 each. I didn’t want to buy them sight unseen, so he sent me a couple pictures. I liked what I saw, so I decided to buy them all. $142.75, he waived shipping and gave me insurance for free. I paid for them all that night, using PayPal. He didn’t actually ship them out until January 17th. He had a great feedback record, with a score of around 1900, 99.97% positive, but I had noticed several neutral’s due to ‘slow shipping’ where he waited nearly a month to ship. Very few negatives, and I don’t think there were any in the last year.

I just got the package today. All the brand new switches were fine, in excellent shape, never opened. He was supposed to send 9 #4 Left, and 10 #4 Right. Here’s what he actually sent…

2 #6 Left, (rails coming loose from ties)
8 #4 Left, (2 of which are completely unusable, missing points and bent rails)
6 #4 Right, (2 of which were in the same condition as the bad #4 Lefts)
4 Left Snap Switches
3 Right Snap Switches.

Now that totals 23 switches, or 4 more than he said he was going to send, but 4 are completely unusable, and 7 are not even what I thought I was buying.

I want to leave him negative feedback for the slow shipping, and misrepresentation of product but here’s where I run into problems… the used switches were bought through an email agreement… not on Ebay. So other than ths slow shipping, the brand new ones were sent exactly as represented on Ebay, but I can’t leave feedback regarding the used ones, because they weren’t an Ebay Auction.

I only have a score of 8, 100% positive, and I’ve checked his other buyers feedback, and anytime they leave him a neutral or negative, he flames them right back, ruining their po

2

Give him a BIG ding on his feedback. What brand are they? (I’m assuming Atlas)
If they are, you paid full price for the switches at a discount price.( $8 each is average)
And you didn’t have to pay shipping. All in all, I can’t say you got ripped off, It’s just not what you were bidding on. (I could have made all those fit on my new layout and would have thought I got a deal)[2c]

3

I’ve found myself in the same situation your in jshrade… Never buy anything from an ebay seller on the side like that because if he stiffs you, you really can’t leave negative feedback. If I were you, I wouldn’t leave any feedback at all. Just make note not to ever do business with the guy again.

Tracklayer

4

Don’t leave him bad feedback, just remember his user id. I have been screwed on ebay and I don’t want my feedback to get ruined, so I don’t retaliate.

5

You’ll have to decide how important that 100% is… Some people, not saying that’s the case here, don’t know the difference between atlas turnouts and snap switches. Try writing him and asking where is what you paid for? See what he says… At the worse though, all you really have on the guy is slow shipping since what you Bid on, Was delivered (wasn’t it?). Neutral on the slow shipping is as far as I’d go with it, if that…

[2c]

Jeff

6

Isn’t that what people like this guy are hoping for? I’m in NO WAY an E Bay expert. I personally don’t even look at the feed back ratings. You can tell a lot about a deal by the way it’s advertised. (shipping,pay policy) E Bay is HUGE crap shoot. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. (I still wouldn’t count this one as a loss)[2c][2c][2c]

7

Well, I emailed him about it. If he wants to refund some of the money, I’m fine with that, but I have a gut feeling that won’t happen. If not, I’ll try to make do with what I did get. Just sucks I got ‘burned’ from someone who appeared to be a reputable seller. I have all of the original emails, including the pictures and the agreement to back me up. Here’s a copy (names/ID’s removed) of the email I sent him. Just have to wait and see what he says now…

Subject: Got the Switches Today

Hey (seller),

Just wanted to let you know, I got the switches in today. The brand new ones are great, but I have a few concerns about the used ones. As per our agreement, you were supposed to send 9 #4 Right hand switches, 10 #4 Left Hand switches. Instead, I got 6 #4 RH, 8 #4 LH, 2 of each (4 total) are completely unusable due to missing switch points, badly broken ties and/or bent rail separating from the ties. You also sent 4 Left Hand Snap switches, 3 Right Hand Snap switches, and 2 #6 Lefthand switches. The #6’s rails are separating from the ties, and I’m not sure if I’ll be able to use them or not. Now, I appreciate the fact that you sent 4 more switches than our agreement, but since 4 of the #4’s are unusable anyway, I feel it’s a moot point. My concern is simply that this is not what I paid for, and I’m not satisfied. I had no intention of using snap switches on my layout unless I’m in a pinch, and snap switches are typically regarded as worth far less than the Atlas Custom Line #4’s. You also said that all of the used switches were in excellent condition. I know condition is relative to whoever’s looking at them at the time, but I just don’t feel these switches even come close to being described as ‘excellent’ condition. I just feel for $142.75, I should have gotten what I paid for.

I’m also quite disturbed at the fact that I sent payment on December 29th, the same day I won the Buy It Now auctions, and you have not left any feedback for me. I have r

8

I’m not entirely sure I consider it a loss… just frustrated. My track plan is designed around #4 switches, and now, in order to use the snap switches (which I may do just on the branchline) I’ll have to redesign that section of the layout to make it all fit. Just annoying is all. I didn’t listen, ya’ll warned me not to buy used track, especially switches, to begin with. I don’t feel entirely bad about the deal. Just not what I was expecting.

9

You can’t leave negative feedback about a deal which didn’t occur using e-bay. If you made the deal that you’re bothered by completely outside of E-bay, solely as a result of a contact made through e-bay, that’s your own doing. It has nothing to do with e-bay. Both you and the seller were avoiding e-bay’s fees for such a sale, so it’s just personal between you and him. e-bay is not involved.

-Ed

10

[#ditto]

You have to be sure to only give feedback on the items in the listing. Anything else is just as he said, between the two of you. This could be a clever ploy this person uses to get rid of his junk under the pretences of a ligidimate listing.

Let us all learn from this one. Thanks for posting your experience, it really does help the rest of us avoid such troubles.

Mike in Tulsa
BNSF Cherokee Sub

11

sounds like he wanted to dump some bad switches giving you an oddball bonus,
One ebay sellar gave me a few extras. As far as switches go, I wouldnt be that gruffed about it, you got a bargain no matter what.

I can lay the rail on handlaid ties and make the switches work again.
Of course I can lay complex switchwork without the high cost of brand made product.
Just inform him what he sent and what you looked for in buying and find an agreement. If your actually OK with the buy, theres not a biggee prob.

12

I have been selling (mostly) & buying on ebay since 1998…I always give feedback on the day I receive the buyers payment, this 1st lets him know I have his money & 2nd that I’m not holding the feedback over his head. I also insist in my description that all questions and/or comments are welcome…if they do not ask I feel they must feel the photo’s and the listing is clear enough…one thing I do not take returns or give refunds…I have never lost any shipments ( well over 2,000) and my packaging is bullet-proof…oh yea…I have still a 100% positive feedback! So when you buy ask lots of questions, get extra scans or photos, also if you want some more safety insure your item!..I try to buy new in the box train items but have also bought groups of used items…if it is used I bid less then what it is claimed to be (if it is said to be excellent I take that as very good) that way you have some margin of protection. Its your money so buyer beware and if you have a bad deal try to work it out before you give that NEGATIVE…and if they give you one back ware it proudly…oh I’m tomkat-13 on ebay.

13

I agree totally that since the sale didn’t take place on ebay, there’s no way I should leave feeback regarding a non-ebay sale. I haven’t heard back from him yet, not sure if I will. He’s got the money, I’ve got the switches (albeit not all are in the greatest of shape or even what I paid for). I reworked my track plan on RightTrack tonight using the Snap Switches on the branchline, and it didn’t change things all that drastically. I’ve just heard so many people complain about snap switches in permanent layouts that I wanted to avoid the hassles with them. Live and learn I guess. Thanks for all the feedback. I wasn’t sure what (if anything) I should do about it.

14

This is something that happens quite a bit on ebay, never make a deal behind Ebay for the simple fact that it can go bad and you not get what you want as stated. The guy pulled you in like a big fish. Don’t leave him any feedback at all, thats the one way of getting even with him. I have done this in the past to some sellers who do poor packing and don’t give you the insurance and item shows up in mail broken to bits. 9 times out of 10 they know this will happen, but get mad because you won’t leave them feedback. I always send them pictures of the damage items, and show them their poor packing in photo’s, it gets dropped like a stone then. I end up fixing the item and re selling then stating it had been damaged in shipping from another seller, and get most if not all of my money back.

Ebay was built for the honest public consumer, but there is the 5% of them that have know business on ebay at all.

The P2K engeines that some sellers are selling: “New in original box,Test run and runs great!” or they say this “Slightly used like new condition!” Almost all of the ones I have bought have came with all 4 gears in the trucks cracked, which is a nothing to fix, but when you point out this to the seller. You always get some poor excuse as to why they did not know this, and never hear from them again.

15

Thats exactly why I stopped buying stuff on Ebay. To much stuff is misrepresented and sellers are charging a ridiculas shipping fee. I would give him the worse possible feedback that you can and suggest you dont buy anything from the Ebay sellers. Thats my opinion I know theres alot of Ebay sellers on this forum that will disagree with me and I’m sure there very reputable.

Steve

16

It sounds to me like this guy is selling stuff he buys from train shows. The slow shipping is a result of having to get the stuff from the show. The reason you did not get the ones you thought is he sold them to somebody else before your money got there. Oh and NEVER buy off ebay unless you actually know the guy!

17

Never buy used track or switches. The auction was for new switches, he cut you a deal on some used crap that weren’t part of the auction so except for the slow shipping he gave you what you won. I would just not leave any feedback.

18

I never…never…use used turnouts…they are too risky to reuse to say the least…thru personnel experience every turnout i’ve pulled and tried to reuse elsewhere had flaws…always purchase them brand new …that’s why i never use E-bay…you really don’t know what you’re getting and i’ve heard too many horror stories about purchases gone wrong from e-bay…chuck

19

Just as a side note, feedback amounts to squat for a buyer. Unless you are selling a lot I wouldn’t worry about a neg on your feedback. If a buyer doesn’t pay, I file a non-pay bidder dispute, place them on my blocked bidder list, hope the punk gets NARUd and move on to the next bidder on the list. Don’t let a seller hold your feedback hostage if they have wronged you through an eBay transaction (unlike the one above). Neg 'em, and if they neg you back, place a response under your neg explaining what happened if it bothers you that bad.

And also, if you get another offer like that through a seller, just have them BIN the item or items. Then have them tell you when and where the auction will be listed.

20

I’ll vote on the “you shouldn’t leave E-bay feedback on non-Ebay deals” side of the equation.

I do disagree with those who say feedback doesn’t count for a buyer. Many sellers won’t accept bids from users with less than a certain feedback rating (including me when i sell).

Personally I buy on Ebay a lot and have never once had a problem. But I’ll add that I avoid ‘high risk’ items; for instance I would never buy used turnouts at all, unless I could physically inspect them first.