Lately I’ve been trying to think of the Rock Ridge and Train City in terms of the basement layout. I intend to make the layout one that will be operated using train orders and car cards and follow prototypical operations as much as possible. Although I haven’t figured out train orders, dispatching, etc. via telegraph yet. First The new plan. 
Besides the obvious difference of the two oval helices and the lower deck staging, I have added switching of industry flats behind the yard and a caboose track, and a few minor differences. The dilemma has to do with Rock Ridge and Train City in relation to the entire basement layout. 
(The Train City Staging becomes points north of Sacramento, eg. Shasta Branch, etc.) Train City Yard becomes a hot spot for operations. All trains east or west have to stop for power change and icing of refers. Passenger trains also have to change power. The Train City Yard Master has also to build and break down locals and set-outs for Rock Ridge and Train City switching–so he’s going to be one busy SOB. In the mean time, There will be trains coming from both east and west to enter the yard. Meaning 2 more people. Add the guys running the locals and you have 3-4 people humping trains in that small little space. Either that, or trains stack-up on the main awaiting for permission to enter the yard. It’s going to be really busy and really tight.
Sure would be nice if you could either hole, or get rid of, that wall between your helix and the yard…at least the lower 3-4’. You could have a couple guys working the yard that way.
OK, your man working the yard can work it from the end of the peninsula, so that free’s up the middle a bit. By slowing down the pace just a little (Your yard man will thank you!), you can stagger your east/west inbounds so that as one leaves the other arrives. That will keep them on seperate sides of the layout. If the schedule gets behind, then it gets a little more crowded, just as it would in real life. Now the local has always had to bend over backwards to accomodate everyone else in real life. In this case it’s no different. By slowing the pace just a bit it gives him a little more wiggle room to get his job done.
It will be tight at times, but just like on the prototype, it’s just the way it is sometimes.
A whole lot of problems with Train City yard.
The only way in is the same track that is the lead.
The only way in is the same track used to do all the switching along the main.
The only long runaround in the yard is now industry tracks and will be blocked with spotted cars.
Everything in or out of the left helix will have to shove in or out of Train City yard.
I think the expression 10 lbs of stuff in 5 lb bag may be appropriate.
TT&TO operation will be a bit frustrating because there is only one meeting point on the layout, at Rock City and that has to be shared with any job switching Rock City, plus looks to be a very short siding. The siding on the main at Train City will have to be in yard limits to make it work (it will have to be renamed because of confusion with Train City yard) and will be a challenge because trains will disappear of the main track into the yard. The siding at Train City will have to be a register station too because of that. Not saying that it can’t be done but it may be a little frustrating.
Also remember that in the 1800’s, which if I remember correctly is your era, trains wouldn’t be “sitting outside the yard waiting for permission to come in.” They would drive up into the yard until something was in their way because there was no method of giving them “permission to come in”. There were no radios. They would go as far as they could until they found a flagman for the train ahead or they reached a person who could give them instructions.
Dave H.
Chip, I’m of Phillip’s mindset. You determine the pace, aka the schedule. The number of staging tracks and trains does not mean they have to all be run in one or even two sessions.
While admittedly, I’m green in the area of ops, I find it really interesting. It’s like a puzzle that the RR has to figure out - what to run when and where.
Unless your goal is to have a several trains working all at the same time, I believe very satisfactory operations can be done with 2-4 people. I think Joe F said it, it’s the quality of the run not how many trains are running.
I found Realistic Freight Operations by Frank Ellison well worth the $8.50 download price. He talks about the lowly way freight offering “more down-to-earth railroading per square foot of track than a brace of speedsters.”
http://kalmbachcatalog.stores.yahoo.net/mrpdf038.html
Slowing things down may be the magic order of the day in your case.
Regards,
Thanks Dave. This is kinds stuff I was looking for. IT has altered my thinking in several ways.
It is quite dense, but I don’t think it is quite as bad as you are making it out. There are three ways of getting into the yard: the “lead” which extends out into the A/D track/siding; the engine track; and the industrial track.
There are actually 3 ways to make long runarounds: lead/engine track; lead/industrial track; industrial track/engine track. However, unless the lead is fouled this should not be an issue. Cars set out from through freights can be shoved temporarily into the industrial track access. If need be, overflow can go into the engine lead, but that should be rare.
The industrial tracks behind the yard have several ways to make runarounds and can actually pull empties and out going cars and put then out for switching even if the track into that area is blocked. Actual spotting of cars in both Train City and Rock Ridge industries need only be once a day.
Meets at Rock Ridge are a little problematic, but can be handled in one of two ways. Typical trains will be 6 - 8 short cars. The engines just can’t pull more. The smaller trains will have no problem. Longer trains will need to either pull into the siding and onto the branch line, then back onto the main until the head clears to exit (western approach) or pull into the siding with the head out onto the main until the cab clears and back into the bran
Unfortunately, that is the stairwell.
Phillip and Tom,
I may be making more of this than I need to. With just the small version of the layout, there certainly need not be a crunch.
Tom,
Yesterday I spent the afternoon working a way-freight along a busy layout. The dispatcher was good and we spent very little time standing. Still when the session ended my route was half-complete and I spent 3 hours working it. The other trains typically take 45 minutes to an hour to complete their runs. It was a blast. I love the locals. I also like yard switching.
Thanks. This is a big help.
Chip,
I’m going to ask a dumb and obvious question. Is there a wall to the left of the helix? If so, I trust you will have some kind of access hole in the middle to reach any…(gasp!)…(Should I even mumble the dreaded words?)…derailments that (inevitably) may happen?
Tom
Thanks. But I will never have a derailment. I’m just not going to allow it.
The wall is about 14 feet to the left of the helix. It is actually under a stairwell.
Chip, I see a puzzle that only the creator may be able to run. I have been working up my yard and have a few questions/thoughts;
Can the yardmaster do all or most tasks without interupting arrival departure or his assistant who will be working the industries?
In your diagram where will the trains arrive? I am confused on that as I don’t see a pocket for the power to leave from the arrived train.
Icing refers is a long proccess, how long will they be holding up the sidding?
I dissagree with the statement above to try to operate the yard from the end of the penisula, would be frustrating and with all the industries at the back of the yard leaves no room for anybody else to see their train to pull it out. I know there has to be some industries near the yard but can they be put on the wall beside the station and put the icing platform along the wall behind the yard? This way there is no reason for the YM helper to cross toes or elbows with th YM, although there will still be a bottleneck in front of the station.
Can I suggest looking up the Alturas and Lonepine RR as the Lonepine yard is close to what you are looking for. Whit does it very diferently. He moved the sation, turntable, sevice, caboose, and arrival departure to the back of the yard keeping the yard, industries and drill track in the foreground. The reasoning was that this is where most of the action was. All this at a little above albow level.
I raelly think you would like it.
Thanks for your observations. The fact that so many people are not seeing my intentions means that you are probably right. However, I don’t think it is that difficult.
Right now he can, but after listening to comments there are three additions I can make that take some of the strain off. There are two places double slips will help. I’m not sure if I can get them into the program.
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The first is at the top of the ladder track. If a train is brought head in on the industrial siding, The engine can escape via the ladder without a switchback move through the industrial area. That lead is the de facto arrival track. It can also then serve as a second lead for the yard assistant, when traffic permits.
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The second where the engine service track meets with the ladder. It will remove the “s” that now exists.
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The third would be a custom crossover from the engine track to the industry track servicing the cattle and foundry. This will give the switcher more direct access to the industry tracks and provide a runaround for when doing the runaround in the industrial area is not efficient.
The train will arrive on the “siding” and either push or pull cars onto the “industrial lead.” An power change for a through freight or passenger train is more problematic and I know I need improvements.
[quote]
Icing refers is a long proccess, how long will they be holding up the sidding?[/qu
What sidding are you refering to, in front of the station or along the back of the yard? If its allong the yard you will have too many conflicts between the arrival duties and switching duties.
Remember the yard sets the pace, period for the entire layout.
I am calling the track opposite the station the siding.
I was not aware that you were going to use hand throws. The end of the yard won’t work as a workspace if you don’t use automated turnouts and coupling/uncoupling. Sorry if I made that assumption.
Darn, Chip, I forgot about the stairs. Sorry for an ineffectual post. [:I]
Chip. I hesitate to ask this question because I have clearly forgotten the details constraining your current plan…what else is nearby.
So, I will just ask and you can respond as you see fit; would it make any sense, and could it be seriously entertained, to merely flip your top layout proper, on the right of the stairs, end for end? IOW, yard now on the right, as is, but mirrored, and the Rock Ridge the same, but now at the stairs? Just flip it all, keeping lengths and configurations, like in a mirror, and then mate up the lower levels as needs be? At least this would free up a bunch of the yard edges for your ops there.
Interesting you would mention that, as I had just read an article on the operation of the Lone Pine. I really don’t understand the Lone Pine yard. It seems to be way long on ladder bypass, industrial bypass, and locomotive run around tracks and way short (2) classification tracks in two areas. One might even be a coach yard. Even a picture on the article shows the yard master moving a “road engine” out to pick up a freight but the locomotive is on the industrial bypass track on the front edge of the layout, no where close to a place it could pick up a train and hell-and-gone from the roundhouse. Or has this been re-designed since 1983?
I guess I am saying I don’t understand how it would help Spacemouse with his yard.
I don’t see that as an issue. If you are operating on TT&TO, unless somebody is flagging it won’t make any difference since you aren’t relying on signals to control anything.
Then you aren’t running TT&TO, you are running manual block and that really didn’t work that way either. But you don’t appear to be close to that anyway.
You have way too much going on at Train City siding. You will have to block both the siding and the main to ice reefers, any train making a meet will block a train from departing a yard. Technically if you have a superior (by timetable direction) train in Train City yard, and it has a meet at Train city with another train, the superior train won’t ever leave because the inferior train would hold the siding and block the superior train from leaving. From a TT&TO perspective you should reverse the main and the siding and have all the switches to the yard break off the main and put the siding and icehouse in the back with the ice house on the left end. That solves a whole bunch of train meet issues.
Dave H.