I am wondering some of you would mind telling of your experiences with the various systems available. In particular, I would like to know how easy is it to learn each system. Are user manuals well written? Are you satisfied with customer serivice of the manufacturers? Were there any major problems?
Basically, I am asking those who already are using DCC systems if they can tell what should I know before I select a system?
I read MR’s book by Lionel Strang. It’s a huge help, and I recommend it.
I have read the thread about which system for a particlar layout, but it would also help to know how good the companies are with helping their customers.
Any and all comments are welcome. This is one of those open ended questions.
My one and only DCC system is not a starter, instead was the fullblown NCE system, first installed in 1999s. I used a command control system called Dynatrol prior to that, which helped immensely in installing the NCE.
That said, I found the NCE system easy to install, and easy to maintain. I do have a question at times, and I mostly go to the NCE forum for help, which is always forthcoming. The manuals, as far as I am concerned could still be improved, but they are a big help and fairly easy to understand.
Finally, NCE has been extremely helpful with questions and problems, they have always done better with phone calls than answering emails. I have also had help from Tony’s and Litchfield Station.
I am always accutely sensitive that my remarks can cause resentment or offense to some people, but I do have some strong feelings on this subject.
My first foray into DCC was with the Bachmann EZ-Command set when it first came out in 2005. I was lured by the price and by my LHS owner’s sales pitch. I returned it within 10 days and ordered a Digitrax Super Empire Builder which I received and installed about a month later.
DCC means different things to different people. Some of us are gurus (not I) and most of us just use it and delve into the nooks and crannies when we really need to. But the DCC system, as an idea, offers a tremendous amount of diverse operational capability to the savvy user. I was not the savvy user when I purchased the EZ-Command, but I learned one thing very quickly…it was not going to provide me with the capability to do what I wanted to do. I knew enough that I wanted to be able to tune the motor response, to tune bell rates, to adjust electronic chuff and BEMF. I knew that much…or that little, depending on your orientation and experience with DCC to this point. The EZ-Command would do none of that. For me, I was almost outraged that Bachmann would sell the product, but I can say empathically that I was disappointed. And back it went.
I won’t tout the great Super Empire Builder. There are better and more modern systems out there, and to keep this short, you could almost take your pick and be entirely happy with it. You could just as likely be very unhappy if you don’t think about ergonomics, warranty, cost, power-handling capability, expandability, and so on. But I feel that many, most, of us, if we were forced to purchase only the monopoly-minded Kingpin DCC Super Kingdom Builder, and it did what my old clunker does for me, would probably be mostly happy. The reality is that there are many variations fr
I can’t speak to the whole spectrum of offerings, but you should know this has been addressed in many threads before, and a search should find them which give very good comparative info.
Without much experience, I went with the Digitrax Zepher and it has been just fine for me. Installed easily, performs as promised, has a decent manual, and I seem assured (by others) it can always be upgraded or blended in with future Digitrax products. They have a full line of accessories… throttles, add-on power modules, etc. From prior threads, my conclusion is Digitrax is a competent and leading system. Now, there are a couple others which also have the same status as you will find out from reviewing the threads. The best ones, seem to keep popping up regularly with good reports from experienced users.
My advice would be to go to each systems web site and download the manuals for their starter sets. The club I belong to uses Lenz. I operate a friends layout with Digitrax but I bought an NCE Power Cab for home. So far I like the Power Cab. Its capable of doing more than I need it to do and with all the other systems I have tried was the easiest to learn.
Obviously you have brought up an issue that has some strong opinions attached to it. Let me relate mine.
Mainly due to the folks on this Forum, I decided to switch to DCC 6 months ago. I read and read and read and asked “tons” of questions. I soon realized that DCC (for me) was not the simple “hook up two wires and run” scenario touted by some, nor was it to be the overwhelming electronics engineering challenge that was touted by others. There is an “in between”, and some of the folks on this Forum finally got me to realize that. DCC is as much or as little as you wish it to be.
I researched systems and soon decided that NCE or Digitrax were the best for my situation. I can list a lot of reasons for this, but it really comes down to the Companies’ strength, product selection, and the fact that many MRs were already using them. After further research, I decided to go with Digitrax for the system (Super Chief plus extra controllers/booster), DCC specialties for the circuit breakers, and primarily NCE for the decoders.
The manuals are ok, and there are Yahoo and other “user groups” out there with the answers to all the questions you can come up with. AND, there are the good people on this Forum that seem to be able and willing to help quickly and any time day or night.
I bought a Lenz System 100. It’s not a starter system, but I wanted something that would already be ready to handle a larger layout when the time came. At the time, Lenz was one of the few manufacturers that offered a 5-amp system right out of the box. It also supported 13 functions, again, a bit ahead of the curve back then (4 years ago.)
But, the single most important reason I chose the Lenz system was…
GREAT BIG BUTTONS!
Yes, I like the throttle. I don’t have to squint to read tiny cell-phone buttons, or use a stylus to press them without hitting 2 or 3 other buttons at the same time.
Now, other people have different opinions about this. Obviously, if you have big buttons, you can’t fit as many on the unit as you can with small buttons. But, that’s not really my point. I think it’s important to hold each throttle in your hand, play with it and, if possible, try running trains with it. The rest of the stuff is pretty much the same, but the throttle is your link to the system. You should find the one you’re happiest with.
I would definitely go with one of the Big Three (Digitrax, Lenz or NCE) since they have the widest user base. An important thing to consider is: What do the majority of modelers in your area use? For example, if you live in a “Digitrax” town, it’s probably better to go with that brand since you’ll have a better chance of getting local assistance if you need it. Plus, when you have op sessions, your guests can all bring their own throttles if you’re using the same system they use - you won’t need to buy any extra ones.
Aside from that, I’d say read the manuals and try to “test-drive” each of the top brands. Also, plan for what you think you’ll need 5-10 years down the road so the system can grow along with your layout.
Unlike Crandell (Slector) I enjoyed my E-Z Command for 2 years. What Crandell did not like about it is what I liked. You could not mess up CV’s. What finaly made me change form the E-Z seems to be a missed match power booster that ate decoders. If I had went with the Bachmann Booster I still be using it. It all so has big buttons like the Lenz.
Heart Land, main thing is what do you want to do with your layout?
If you have a hobby shop near you, do they handle 1 of the name brands, or maybe a couple. My LHS is a Digitrax dealer, and he has been very helpful when I have had questions.
As mentioned in previous posts, a local shop, club, or friends that use a particular manufacturer can be a lifesaver when you are starting out in DCC.
I went with a Digitrax Zephyr and have been happy with its performance, its ease of use, the support from Digitrax and the expandability of the product. I purchased it some years ago and there really were not many competing starter sets at the same level. If I were looking today I would also give the NCE Powercab a serious look. I don’t think I would seriously consider any other starter set beyond these two.
I’ve been DCC for about three years now. The first two years was with a Bachmann EZ-Command and for the last year I got a Digitrax Zephyer which I’ve found to be drop dead easy to use. I’ve had no issues with it and am quite happy with it.
Thanks for the comments. I’ve read them all carefully. I will do that again, too. It looks like you have had good experiences with some of the major DCC brands. I’ll see if there are other people who wish to add their comments. My LHS is over a hundred miles from here, so I do not go often. My layout is around the wall double track with about 130’ of walls. in addition, there are penensulas and there is a second level covering another 50’. I have installed 3 sets of 12 guage bus wires for the 130’, and there is one more pair for the second level. I will place the main controls somewhat in the center. I plan to have a wireless system.
With all the zillions of threads written on this topic I would think that you could tell us what we think. First I have to say I don’t know what is officially a starter system, other than the first system someone buys. I personally own MRC, Lenz, and Digitrax systems and use CVP throttles, and NCE decoders. I operate on systems that have the NCE PRO wireless.
How easy is it to learn each system. Hmmm what is easy and intuitive for one person could be convoluted to the next. What do you want to learn? Just picking up the throttle and running a train, or do you mean learning how to do everything and being an expert. I found that for just using the system to do simple programming and running trains the two systems with consoles (CVP, Digitrax Zephyr) to be the easiest to learn. For the Lenz system I had to go to the manuals often, but then I discovered that the system was set to speak in “German” when I got it. When I learned how to setting it to speak English it helped a lot.
I’ve never read the Digitrax Zephyr manual, except when I was trying various programming modes for a stubborn piece of junk Athearn Genesis sound unit. The Lenz manuals do not flow well to an American’s way of thinking. I’ve never understood why the most used section of the manual starts on page 39. But it does contain everything I’ve needed to know.
Lenz support was great the one time our club’s system had an issue (fried output transistor), and for upgrad
Ah yes…which system. I was where you are now 6 months ago. Lots of advice…all good will come your way. I went with the Digitrax Super Chief and couldn’t be happier. And I am a moron when it comes to all of this stuff. The super chief is very easy to set up and get going. Then you just start getting more into the different things DCC can do. In 6 months I have progressed to simple programming…installing tortoise switch machines and adding signals to the layout…with everything working. (knock on wood)
I had a lot of help from Mike at Charleston Digital Trains and Craig at Dallas Model Works. I’m sure they can lead you in the right direction.
Gary, you mention your need for wireless, A couple of follow up questions, how many operators do you want to be able to support? and how many locos do you anticipate running simultaneously?
As a Q fan you are almost required to get a Zephyr[:)] however, it may not meet your requirements?
Digitrax will very soon be releasing a new 2 way wireless solution, so depending on your timescale it may come out too late for you.
I went with a Digitrax Super Empire Builder and do like it, they have a Radio version as well. Its DT 400 throttle is a big plus if you run more than one main line. It has two throttles built into the hand help. I use this feature so I can run 4 engines on the two mains with out running into each other. Well Most if The Time they don’t! [:)]
Main thing I don’t like about the SEB is there is no programing track outlet! In that respect I wish I had went with the Super Chief. Plus I have hit the wrong button a few times and changed all the CV’s on the engines on the bench. Nothing like have 10 engines address set to 36 to make life fun. Seems if you are on Po programing, unplug the DT 400 and replug it in it reverts page to Page mode.
If you get the Auto-SW from NCE($24.95 MSRP) and wire it between your track output and your layout, it will break the connection to the layout when you do Page mode programming.
Thanks very much everybody. Each reply is very worthwhile.
One more question. What about my lighted Walthers passenger cars with Walthers lighting kits? I have used DC kits and not DCC kits. What should I do? Also I have a kato lighting kit in my Kato business car.
It sounds like your layout will require a 5 amp system and possibly some boosters. Any of the major brands should work well but you need to narrow it down to the one that works best for your operation.
It’s too bad you don’t have a LHS where you can touch and feel the various systems. The interface (handheld throttle, sometimes called a cab) will be a major factor in your decision. It’s hard to tell how you will like them just by reading manuals and from forum comments. Maybe you can find some local clubs to visit, or possibly some train shows.
Your going to find some that love a throttle and then others who might hate the same throttle. It’s hard to tell for you until you get it in your hands and actually run some trains. For example, the NCE hammer head throttle looks and feels good but after actually using it one might change their mind. I did. I found that the Digitrax DT400 was far, far better for me. I didn’t expect that but that’s how it turned out for me. Others may say just the opposite.
Another factor is whether or not you are going to throw turnouts from your thottle using DCC. Some smaller hand held engineer’s throttles, e.g., Digitrax and NCE, are great for following trains around the layout but not for throwing turnouts. I operate solo so I use the larger primary throttle because I want to do everything from one throttle, i.e., progamming, consisting, etc., and I throw turnouts from the throttle. I found the Digitrax DT400 much better for that instead of NCE.
Wireless is a must for me and it sounds like that’s the way you’re going. Digitrax and NCE radio both work very, very well but Digitrax’s is still simplex, meaning you have to plug in to select locos and release locos. Their new duplex should be out before long and that will be great. But I s