Zero-1, DCC, Now E-Z App and Maybe Dead Rail

Model trains have been an interest of mine since the 1960’s, although slotcars – HO and 1/32nd – have been my real passion. Activity in all of the above has been sporadic over the years, but now that I am retired I have been devoting much more time to my hobbies.

I got interested in digital control for HO model railroads back in the 1980’s.

While visiting England I was impressed by some Hornby locomotives and bought them just to enjoy as static models. Not long after my wife convinced me to create a loop around our Christmas tree. Things progressed from there.

I built a 9 x 5 foot permanent layout using Hornby track. Four loops, two at ground level, two elevated.

Eventually I learned about Hornby’s original digital control system, called ‘Zero-1’. It pre-dated DCC by maybe a decade. I purchased and set up a system with four throttles and Zero-1 boards in all of my locomotives – about a dozen.

Zero-1 was very basic, but did everything I really wanted to do. I could control any locomotive, forward and reverse. Speed and momentum. I was perfectly happy with it. I didn’t need or want more.

I was able to run my Zero-1 system for decades, maintaining it with parts largely purchased new-old-stock online. But eventually I had to replace the main control box and I couldn’t find one. A very sad day. I had to move on.

So I did my homework and decided my best option – well, pretty much my only option – was to upgrade to a DCC system. I chose to buy an NCE setup. Invested quite a bit of money in it.

Now I should mention that I am a mechanical engineer, and pretty comfortable with computers and programming. But I wouldn’t consider myself a computer geek. I did not take to DCC. It seemed overly complex and difficult to use. All that DCC hardware, my layout and my trains got disused. There was too much work i

EZ-Ap and DCC are kinda two versions of the same thing. In the EZ-Ap, the engines gets constant power from the rails, then your phone sends signals via wi-fi to the engine to control it. In DCC, the engine gets constant power from the rails, and your controller sends signals via the track to control the engine. Don’t know that one is really more complex than the other? Plus with DCC any decoder will work with any system, it’s not proprietary like Zero 1 was, or EZ-Ap.

Hornsby is a proprietary type company. They like you using thier equipment for thier locomotives.

NCE is a larger club and layout system not suited for what you have. Not surprised by your results. What you could have used is something like digitrax zephyr or bachmann easy command. Simple dcc systems more for beginners and small layouts like yours. Hornsby has an equivalent from what I have heard.

blue Tooth will probably catch on with age and be excepted as an age group thing. Blue tooth can be just as complicated to set up a dcc system with. Just adds extra layers with apps and such. Will be slow to gain commonality. If it actually lasts.

deadrail is really the domain of large scale where it appeared some 20 years ago. It works well there because the batteries are bigger, and the locos can pull that weight easily along with roll bearing axles and such. Locos are drastically heavier I. Weight too. All my large scale is dead rail except for a few pieces. Smaller scales not so well adaptable because of small batteries and current demand. that just the loco. Add I. Train weight sound, and grades and curves to battery life. on small switching g layouts it does well to illuminate the complication of wires and electrical breaks. Until. Atteries get better, dead rail on a smaller layout not all that great or useful.

shane

DCC can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be, Ed. What NCE system did you investe in for a 5 x 9 layout? Did you go wireless?

I have an NCE Power Cab and find it very intuitive to use. And it worked just fine for my previous 4 x 8 layout. I even have the Smart Booster to raise the amperage to 5A, as well as allow me to disconnect my Power Cab for walkaround.

I don’t know where you got your information from, Shane. The NCE Power Cab is also a starter DCC system with 2A of power. The Digitrax Zephyr is slightly more @ 2.5A. (The newer Zephyr Xtra has 3A) The Bachmann E-Z Command has only 1A with nowhere near the capabilities of the Power Cab or Zephyr. And the NCE PH Pro @ 5A would be just as at home on a small layout as the Power Cab.

Tom

Hello All,

I don’t understand the presumption that NCE is unsuitable for smaller pikes.

My HO pike is a 4’x8’ with no way to expand due to the dictates of “She Who Must Be Obyed.”

I began with DC block wiring.

From my personal experience- -it was a nightmare trying to run two trains with block control and two (2) cabs.

As has been said…

“It was like trying to play the piano with boxing gloves.”

The cost of wiring and control for 16 DC blocks would have paid for an entry-level DCC system.

Next, I switched to DCC using the Bachmann Dynamis DCC system.

I expanded it to the limits of its capabilities with multiple antennae and a 5-Amp booster.

Soon I realized that this system was a dead-end, with its limitations.

The Dynamis system was “better” than DC- -but not the solution I was seeking.

I run several diesel consists of three (3) and four (4) units MUed, simultaneously.

While researching DCC systems I found that NCE fit my needs better than other manufacturers.

The way NCE handles consists was the determining factor.

I chose the NCE PowerPro 5-Amp wireless system.

I also added an AR10 reversing unit with circuit breaker protection for the wye, along with four (4) EB1s to create a total of five (5) power districts.

A DCC Concepts Meter was added inline to monitor Amperage and Voltage from the booster/command station to the power districts.

Then I added a standalone programming track for my workbench with JMRI DecoderPro and a Digitrax PR3 running from my

Tom) As you know Im not DCC, but those stats have me wondering… That doesnt seem like hardly any power (under 3amps that is).

So, a couple of older locos lashed up (you know the high draw motors compared to todays) it would seem might burn up a DCC power unit. Does this happen? (prolly not - I would presume they are circuit protected, but…)

For someone wanting to run older models that are just starting out in DCC, should they not get a higher power rated supply to begin with instead of a lower powered ‘starter system’?

Curiosity is killing my cat,

Douglas

Nah, my experiences with E-Z App and NCE DCC were soooooooo different!

When I received my E-Z App loco I put it on my track and opened the Bachmann app on my iPhone. The app saw the loco automatically. I opened the control screen and moved the throttle slider. And the locomotive started to run. I stopped the loco, hit the reverse button, and moved the throttle slider again. The loco ran backwards.

BANG! I had achieved everything I wanted in about a minute and a half. Everything that my Zero-1 system had given me all those years ago. Absolutely dirt simple.

I won’t go into all the grief I had trying to get my NCE DCC system to play nice. I simply confirmed all the frustrations folks like me have with it.

I’m done with DCC. I sold all my NCE hardware – at a loss – and I’m glad to be shut of it.

Will I be able to refit all my locos with E-Z App? Is there a better, cheaper, Bluetooth system out there or on the horizon that will force E-Z App into obsolesence? I wish I knew. But in the meantime… Hurray! I get to play with my trains!

While a larger power supply might be desirable with lots of MU’d older locos, what is more important is to use decoders with suitable power handling capacity for those older motors.

Many decoders are only rated in the

[quote user=“jjdamnit”]

Hello All,

NVSRR
NCE is a larger club and layout system not suited for what you have.
Not surprised by your results.
What you could have used is something like digitrax zephyr or bachmann easy command.
Simple dcc systems more for beginners and small layouts like yours.

I don’t understand the presumption that NCE is unsuitable for smaller pikes.

My HO pike is a 4’x8’ with no way to expand due to the dictates of “She Who Must Be Obyed.”

I began with DC block wiring.

From my personal experience- -it was a nightmare trying to run two trains with block control and two (2) cabs.

As has been said…

“It was like trying to play the piano with boxing gloves.”

The cost of wiring and control for 16 DC blocks would have paid for an entry-level DCC system.

Next, I switched to DCC using the Bachmann Dynamis DCC system.

I expanded it to the limits of its capabilities with multiple antennae and a 5-Amp booster.

Soon I realized that this system was a dead-end, with its limitations.

The Dynamis system was “better” than DC- -but not the solution I was seeking.

I run several diesel consists of three (3) and four (4) units MUed, simultaneously.

While researching DCC systems I found that NCE fit my needs better than other manufacturers.

The way NCE handles consists was the determining factor.

I chose the NCE PowerPro 5-Amp wireless system.

I also added an AR10 reversing unit with circuit breaker protection for the wye, along with four (4) EB1s to create a total of five (5) power districts.

A DCC Concepts Meter was added

[quote user=“Just Wanna Play”]

Model trains have been an interest of mine since the 1960’s, although slotcars – HO and 1/32nd – have been my real passion. Activity in all of the above has been sporadic over the years, but now that I am retired I have been devoting much more time to my hobbies.

I got interested in digital control for HO model railroads back in the 1980’s.

While visiting England I was impressed by some Hornby locomotives and bought them just to enjoy as static models. Not long after my wife convinced me to create a loop around our Christmas tree. Things progressed from there.

I built a 9 x 5 foot permanent layout using Hornby track. Four loops, two at ground level, two elevated.

Eventually I learned about Hornby’s original digital control system, called ‘Zero-1’. It pre-dated DCC by maybe a decade. I purchased and set up a system with four throttles and Zero-1 boards in all of my locomotives – about a dozen.

Zero-1 was very basic, but did everything I really wanted to do. I could control any locomotive, forward and reverse. Speed and momentum. I was perfectly happy with it. I didn’t need or want more.

I was able to run my Zero-1 system for decades, maintaining it with parts largely purchased new-old-stock online. But eventually I had to replace the main control box and I couldn’t find one. A very sad day. I had to move on.

So I did my homework and decided my best option – well, pretty much my only option – was to upgrade to a DCC system. I chose to buy an NCE setup. Invested quite a bit of money in it.

Now I should mention that I am a mechanical engineer, and pretty comfortable with computers and programming. But I wouldn’t consider myself a computer geek. I did not take to DCC. It seemed overly complex and difficult to use. All that DCC hardware, my layout and my tr

It’s pretty easy using DCC throttles with dual controls. But I suspect you know that and are conveniently leaving it our of your arguments, as usual.

DCC does not have AC track power. But I suspect you know that and are conveniently leaving it our of your arguments, as usual.

There is a Zero 1 on sale right now from France on E-bay $75 plus shipping, buy it now.

I have hundreds of hours running trains on DCC, and I never got comfortable enough to run two trains at once. Different strokes for different folks.

Well yes, I know what kind of complex waveform the DCC power is, but for the purpose of answering Doug’s question, making it clear that it is not DC was information enough.

It just bugs you that I have used DCC and know a fair amount about it, but don’t choose to use it on my own layout. And that I suggest that different layouts may be served by different choices. Give it a rest already. Seems to me a number of your snarky comments toward me have been deleted in other threads, that should tell you something.

But its ok, you likely will not hear from me for another week or two.

Sheldon

Hi Douglas,

I have some older brass from the 70s but they all have can motors - i.e. either as-built or replaced by me. My Power Cab has a built-in amp meter and the motors generally draw < than 0.5A and often 0.25A or <. That should allow me to safely operating 4 locomotives (or 2 sets of MU’d locomotives) simultaneously. (I never operated more than two locomotives at one time so that’s never been an issue for me.) To allow a buffer, however, if you do have older locomotives that draw higher amperage, it would probably be wise to purchase a 5A DCC system.

And, you are correct in your presumption. In the event that the max amperage is reached or exceeded through a spike or short, DCC systems are designed with circuit protection to shut down temporarily then boot back up

From the original post…

“The purpose of this post? To see if there are others out there who see Bluetooth and dead rail systems as desirable alternatives to DCC, and maybe learn how they might be emerging in the model railroading market.”

I’m hearing a lot from folks using DCC. I’ve not heard from any folks using Bluetooth and only one using dead rail.

And I fully understand that folks who have mastered DCC aren’t going to abandon it. Too much time and money invested. No need to hear more on that subject.

I’d like to hear from folks who are using Bluetooth systems – Bluerail, E-Z App, or any other. Especially if they are operating them as dead rail systems, or at least keep alive systems.

It would also be great to hear from manufacturers who are making or developing Bluetooth systems. Get some indication that Bluetooth has a future in model railroading.

Hello All,

I am glad you have found a way to continue with this great hobby to your satisfaction- -whatever that solution entails.

As you have observed…

As I intonated in my post, Bachmann has developed technologies that- -with all the greatest of intentions- -have been limited in their application and expansion beyond a niche community.

I hope this is not the case for you and others who embrace the E-Z App system.

If you are inquiring about a specific, proprietary, technology why not go to the source?

Not to dissuade you from participating in these forums- -all perspectives of model railroading benefits us all- -but your inquiry is selective in its scope.

Bachmann has their own forums, of which I am a member.

Perhaps your queries would be better understood there, along with a better sense of community.

As a retired electrician from the entertainment industry, a rudimentary form of DCC lighting control is what I learned and am most comfortable with.

DC in lighting control was cumbersome although perceived as “simpler.”

My intention is not to detract from your success.

I hope you connect with like-minded users, as you have expressed.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the answers guys! -Douglas

Re Sheldon’s remarks above (about running more than one train at once)…

I have a 4x8 layout that is based upon the “Black River Junction” project that MR did a few years’ back. It has the BRJ “L-shaped” extension which I expanded from the original plan to have a small yard.

To control it I use a Digikeijs DR5000 (as hardware) with the (free) Roco z21 app running on a Samsung Galaxy tablet (9.5" screen). I have the tablet locked in horizontal orientation displaying 2 loco control screens side-by-side.

I normally try to keep two engines moving, sometimes can get three running simultaneously, and even FOUR engines for short periods of time (it’s only a 4x8…).

We’re not talking extended time here. There’s a “road freight” that may simply be “doing loops” while another engine switches an industry. And add to that the third engine “returning light” to the yard. But again, sometimes three at once (even with only 2 control screens, the z21 makes “flipping” between engines easy).

I think that because the layout IS small, it’s easier to keep an eye on things.

And once in a while I DO have to hit the “emergency” button…! [8D]

I try run the railroad three times daily. Usually come on here in the evening, just after “the last run of the day”…

Well, if you can do that, and you find it fun, good for you. That would not be fun for me.

And the touch screen control is a non-starter for me.

I like display running as well as “prototype operations”, so all my more recent layouts have been carefully designed to support both.

In fact the new layout is specifically designed to support the display loop running of 5 trains

jjdamnit,

Of course I have been on the Bachmann E-Z App website. Two problems:

  1. I can’t post on the site. I’ve tried to get support – no luck.

  2. There’s almost no activity there. Due to few members or inability to post? Dunno.

‘Model Railroader’ is a publication I’ve been aware of for decades. I’d expect its website to have authoritative postings on just about any model railroading subject. That is why I’ve come here to ask about E-Z App, Bluerail and dead rail. I’m willing to invest some time (and keyboarding) trying to connect with folks having similar experiences and interests.

To date, no luck. Am I alone on this planet?