Along with the Chessie System, I love the 1950’s Burlington Northern era, when they had steam and diesel locomotives. The only problem is that I can’t find information about the Burlington Northern then. Any information about them at that time is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
~Justin
Thats because in the 1950s there was no Burlington Northern. BN came into being in 1968 with the merger of the GN. CB&Q & NP.
Oh. Well, I they still could’ve had one or two steam locos, but then can people give me information on the 1968 BN like rolling stock, diesel units, industries, companies that make models of those things, ect.? Thanks!
~Justin
Just to clarify, the BN was created in 1970, from the merger of the Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Chicago Burlington and Quincy, and Spokane Portland and Seattle railroads. Except for the CB&Q, whose Colorado and Southern subsidiary used steam until 1961 or '62, the other railroads retired steam in the 1950’s. (I believe the Chessie System was created about that time too?)
The BN was one of the largest railroads in the world, so it’s not possible here to answer all your questions. There have been numerous books written about BN and the railroads that went into it, their locomotive rosters etc.
Maybe start by checking out the Friends of the Burlington Northern Railroad, the BN historical society:
Google Burlington Northern and you’ll come up with tons of stuff
For example (and this barely scratches the surface)
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoList.aspx?id=BN
There was at least one genuine Burlington Northern steam locomotive – at a tie plant. Trains magazine had a photo of it but I am unable to find anything on the internet so far.
Dave Nelson
Dave, the tie plant you are referring to, was it by any chance in Somers MT.?
No, the tie plant was at Brainard, MN. They had a couple of small narow gauge engines that pushed/pulled small cars of ties in/out of the creosote cooker. Right now, I can not remember if they were ‘fireless’ cookers or actually burned fuel.
Jim
I believe they were fireless cookers, now that you mention I do remember reading about them years ago…although there were some fireless ones that served I think a sugar beet plant in MN until the early 80’s, maybe that’s what I’m thinking of??
While the 1970 date is correct, the original date for the merger was set in 1968. Last minute court challanges delayed the implimentation. There were employee time tables printed for the 1968 date.
So if you see a BN employee time table with a 1968 date, it isn’t a fake. It just never went into effect.
Jeff
True the merger was agreed upon in 1966 or 67 and would have originally taken effect in 1968, but the actual “official” merger date was March 2, 1970. BTW this was I think the third time the railroads attempted to merge, dating back to the eary 1900’s.
A few differences. The GN and NP owned (stock wise) the CB&Q since 1910. The 1970 merger did NOT include the Milwalkee which had been included in some of the earlier merger attempts.
I believe there were actually four attempts at a merger, the first being stopped by the Theodore Roosevelt “trust busting” administration c. 1905. The merger I think was looked at again in maybe the 20’s and then the 50’s-early 60’s but didn’t get very far, then finally in the mid-sixties the deal was worked out that lead to the BN merger in 1970.
NP and GN bought the CB&Q as their connection with Chicago, since both railroads ended in St.Paul MN. I’m not sure but maybe before that GN and NP trains were forwarded to Chicago via the Milwaukee?? If so that could explain why they’d be considered in a merger with NP/GN.
Similarly NP and GN each owned half of the SP&S.
Of course early in the 20th century James J. Hill owned the GN but also had large stock holdings in the NP, and there was I believe what they call an “interlocking board of directors” - a director of say the GN might also be on the board of the NP, and a vice-president of the NP might be on the board of the GN and the CB&Q. So when the merger happened - unline NYC/Pennsy - they weren’t two completely separate competing companies merging.
Since you mentioned it… the Chessie System as a “brand” was initiated in 1973, but it really began with the merger of the C&O/B&O back in 1964. In 1966 C&O/B&O petitioned the ICC to release the B&O’s 41% ownership of the Western Maryland from the blind trust in which it was held since the late 1920’s. This allowed the C&O/B&O to effectively take control of the WM in 1967. WM stopped operating independently in 1973 when the silly cat started appearing. By mid 1975 much of its lines west of Hagerstown were abandoned, and in 1983, with the creation of CSX, the WM was dissolved as a corporate entity. The last locomotive in original Western Maryland paint soldiered on until 1991 or 92, when a major mechanical failure caused it to be retired and sold.
It was never painted into Chessie or CSX colors. It was subsequently rebuilt, and now works on a shortline out west someplace.
Lee
If you want more information on the somers locomotives, I can help because I’m the great grandson of the current owner of one of them.
There were two fireless cookers the worked the somers plant until it burned down. Neither of them were narrow gauge, and one is still oporational. I should know befcause I drove the dang thing.
Since the date of most of these posts, I was reading a book that said the CB&Q was not the first choice for Hill and J P Morgan for an outlet to Chicago. Morgan, the banker for Hill, preferred the CM&StP for that role. The Milwaukee, or “St Paul Road” as it was known then, wasn’t interested in being bought out. The CB&Q wasw willing and the rest is history.
The book was not about any of the above railroads, but a different one operating and looking to possible expansion in the general geographic area. It was mentioned as background for the then current railroad situation.
Jeff
In case you didn’t notice, you replied to a topic that is 16 years old. The posters might not even be alive any longer or no longer participate.
LOL. Yeah, the OP has been missing in action for over 12 years. [(-D]
Rich
Well I’m still here (but may not be all here?).
Another ‘what might have been’ goes back to the 1880s, before the GN was formed. James J. Hill owned the St. Paul Minneapolis & Manitoba RR, and sat on the board of directors of Canadian Pacific. Since there was very little then (and now) north of Lake Superior, he advocated CP running it’s mainline thru the Twin Cities. Trains from Toronto, Montreal etc. going west would run to Sault Ste. Marie MI, from Sault Ste. Marie to Mpls/St. Paul on the Soo Line, and then MSP to Winnipeg, Manitoba on his St.P M&M. For political reasons, the CP decided to run it’s entire line through Canada.
The RRs that would form BN were painting some of their cars in the late 60s as a test in various shades of green (GN, SP&S). The closest to the final BN paint job were the green Burlington boxcars…with “BURLINGTON” lettering in a similar font style to what BN would use but no logo.
00
The CP was built largely because what are now the western provinces demanded a railroad to the east as a condition of their joining Canada. If it hadn’t been, they almost assuredly would have joined the US - the idea of which Imperial Britain found intolerable. The railway was built with money from London.