Hey guys so I have found a little info on this but not much. Designing my N scale shelf layout and will be beginning construction soon. It will have some over and under action and I will be running double stack container cars so I designed my overs at 3" high. The way it’s designed, from the beginning of the grade to where it levels out will make it right at about a 2.5% grade. What is the best option for me to get this grade as Woodland Scenics only has 2, 3 and 4% foam risers. Can I somehow modify a 2% and if so how? Otherwise any other ideas that won’t be too complicated to make it work right? Thanks!
Looks to me like they have a sort of zig-zag foam thingy. You maybe could use a 3% version and stretch it out a bit. The puzzlement is whether there’s enough stretchiness there to do it without breaking the foam.
Ed
You may be able to use some sort of shim under each end of the 2% to bring it up to 2.5% or just use the 3% risers and avoid all that fiddling to get to 2.5%.
What I did,in HO. I knew the height I needed, knew how far I had to work with. Took a pieace of 1in foam 3-4in wide. Layed said foam in place. Put supports under where needed, made the top and bottem nice, done.
No idea what the %grade is, don’t care. All my engines will pull at least 5 cars up it, good enuff
Hi CTConrail,
You could use the 2% incline with some stiff cardboard built up gradually from the start. Corrugated will work once you get into the areas where it needs to be thicker, but cereal box type cardboard would be better where the grade starts.
Don’t forget that you have to have a smooth transition from level track to the sloped track. I’m not sure what the recommendations are for N scale but the change in slope needs to happen over several inches or you may have uncoupling or derailment issues as the train starts up the grade.
Note that the transitions shorten the actual length of the 2.5% grade. In order to fit everything into the same space the grade may actually have to be steeper than 2.5% between the transitions.
Another approach to getting a smooth grade with built in transitions is to use 1/2" or 3/4" plywood ‘cookie cutter’ style with risers every 12" - 16". Cut the plywood an inch or two wider than the roadbed and long enough that the plywood can be attached firmly to the level benchwork before the grade starts. When you lift the opposite end of the plywood up to form the grade the plywood will naturally form a transition between the level area and the grade. Same thing on the other end.
It will look like this. The roadbed shown is on a 2% grade. Since the picture was taken we made some changes that required the grade to go to 2.5%. Making the change was quick and easy. All we had to do was unscrew the 1"x4" risers and move then up a bit:
Dave
Thanks guys. I really don’t want to go to a 3% grade as I plan to run longer trains. I would have designed it at a 2% if I could have gotten away with it but I am working with a smaller space (7x9.5, 2 feet wide except for the ends which are almost 3 feet). None of my grades are a straight shot, both are utilizing my radius on each end of the layout so the foam would’ve been nice to easily shape to the curves but the plywood cookie cutter method is also doable.
To obtain a 3” gain in grade at 2½% the length is 120” not counting the transitions. I would use a straight, not warped, 1” x 4” or so board and like UNCLEBUTCH I would measure and cut the supports or risers at say 6” to 12” spacing and do it to it. For N gauge 1” foam should be the easiest to work with.
30 years ago I did my HO layout that way using ¼” OSB for a 3½% rise (8½"). I used 1” x 2” pine for the risers (glued & screwed) at 10” spacing for all of my grades.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
For what it’s worth, on my last layout I had 2.9% grades up and out of staging and two 6-axle SD45’s could pull a 24 car coal train up no problems. I didn’t try to see what the limit was but might have been able to handle a few more cars.
The above layout was 10x18’. If you are working with a 7x9.5, then what is a “longer” train? I’d guess on a layout that size, 15 cars would be on the long side.
Point I’m making is 3% is not probably going to limit you much unless you are running single engine trains with a relative lot of cars of that size layout.
What if you were to use some of those plastic risers found in cheap train sets and space them out evenly on your total rise. Then come along and ‘fill in the voids/spaces’ with cuts of stiff foam, …and the sides with a more permanent scenic material.
Are you forgetting he’s in N scale?
You could get the 3-pct. risers and cut them into separate pieces with a hot-wire cutter and then spreading them out further. I did that to create a 1-pct. rise out of 2-pct. risers, cutting each piece (cutting at each “zig-zag” space) and then spreading the sections out.
I would probably do a “real world” test of the track plan first, and see if 2-pct might not give you enough elevation to work without needing to cut things up.
I will be running at least a 2 engine consist most times, SD80s or AC4400s for the longer intermodal trains and actually Mel made me realize I either did my math wrong and actually have closer to a 3% or I am not remembering the length of my grade runs correctly. If I did do the math wrong I could just use the WS 3% risers. If I am lucky enoughnto have the same results as you with ability to pull 24 cars with 2 engines then I am ok with a 3%. i do also have the cheap plastic risers (in N and HO) that railandsand mentioned so I could use those to test and get an idea before making my risers out of pink foam. However it is a 2 track main but I can still use them to get height measurements. I’m sure once I start building I will be ok. If I am actually at a 2.5% like I thought then Stix I like your idea also. Thanks guys!!
I actually didn’t do the math, many years ago I bought Handy Converter from Stan’s Trains. I just plugged in your numbers and it came up with 10 feet. His software has worked out very good for me over the years. At 81 I don’t tax my brain anymore than I absolutely have too, it’s almost worn out.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I’m beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
The quickest way to do this, without all the cutting and shimming, is to cut out the length and radius in 1/2" plywood, and then support it with quickly chopped 1X2 risers. A few screws and you have your slope. You’d only need maybe five risers in total, each spaced about 20" apart, plus the plywood flexed vertical curve at each end of the grade. This could all be accomplished inside of an hour, and that includes sweeping the supporting surfaces free of debris…and a trip to the toilet.
I actually used an online calculator and also the software I designed the plan with calculated the grade for me. I slightly redesigned my plan from where I got my original measurements because my original plan looked way too cluttered track wise (that’s what happens when you try to squeeze so many industries in a smaller layout) so that could be how I screwed it up. I have to go to my software when I get a sec and look at my track plan again and see what the deal is.
I have not written this off as an option either. Thanks!
Yes. Is N scale able to haul more cars up the same grade or less than HO on average?
Thats a good question and I was wondering the same. Bigger motors on HO but less weight on N so I would guess around the same but not sure honestly. Anyone know the answer?
Oh and PS, where I messed up is that its a 2.5" rise not a 3" so it is closer to a 2.5% grade. However a large portion of the grade is on a radius so how if at all will this affect the grade?
Oh and PS Mel, where I messed up is that its a 2.5" rise not a 3" so it is closer to a 2.5% grade. However a large portion of the grade is on a radius so how if at all will this affect the grade?