While I don’t know much about Amtrak’s ADA compliance policies, this article, if it’s true as presented, shows an astonishing degree of Tone Deafness.
This isn’t ‘tone deafness’, it’s common sense.
Amtrak has been mandated by Congress to do things at a profit.
You don’t remove and put back seats for a $16 charge. Hence if you expect more than the nominal ADA accommodation provided for large power chairs, expect to pay what it costs to make that space.
Or have Congress make and pass laws that give you that particular accommodation. That’s probably the strategy in use here: fulfil the letter of the law, and let policymakers amend it when the complaints get large enough. But I’m not sure there’s going to be enough lobbying to get major car-knocking modifications (and then seats put back afterward) done free as a ‘right’.
Personally, I’d tell them they can ride one to a car, in the accommodations prepared for wheelchair riders. And if their chairs don’t fit, get ones that do if they want to ride the train.
On a recent AMTRK trip I did observe what appeared to be eqipment designed to get wheelchair bound individuals onto the train (SuperlinerCars(?)). there were devices labeled wheelchair lifts on some of the station platforms; although I never saw one used. Some of the baggage areaswithin the lower level of thos Superliner Cars appeared to have a folding ramp device[ I assumed they were for individuals boarding the train with limited abilities(?).
It seemed that those with mobility limitationswere specifically seated on the Superliner Cars lower levels( ?). A passenger with a ‘walker’ was assisted on and off by individuals and crew on deboarding. I would assume a large party with limited mobility individuals, would require some special advanced planning, and for certain some sort of ‘lift’ to board and exit the train. Possibly, an extra baggage car could somehow be used for their convrnience(?). For certain, a group requiring boarding assistance, would require extra time on station stops, which would disrupt the published regular schedule. [:-^][:-^]My guess is that AMTRK would probably, not be to anxious to see their trains and empoyee schedules so disrupted.
It’s a 2 hour drive. Why would they want to take Amtrak?
Sam, the ramps that I have seen in Superliner cars are not folding devices; they are heavy one piece ramps.
I have seen a lift used to raise someone up to a Superliner car–and also used to raise someone up to a single level car.
The central and west Texas stations served by Amtrak that don’t have raised platforms, i.e. Cleburne, McGregor, Taylor, Del Rio, etc., have a portable lift to help handicapped passengers get on and off the train. For those stations with raised platforms, the one-piece ramp is used.
Amtrak is funding the construction of a raised platform at Temple. According to the construction company foreman, the estimated cost of the project is $1 to $1.5 million.
Taking the time to accommodate handicapped people on the Texas trains is not likely to disrupt their on-time-performance. The schedules of the Heartland Flyer, Texas Eagle, and Sunset Limited have more padding in them than training boxing gloves.
Johnnie, and PSJ1:
My recent ride on AMTRK was specifically, on the Southwest Chief; West #3 and East #4. Our trip West was pretty much right on ‘the advertised’. Station stops were very quick, I did not time them
This is a state supported train, paid for by citizens tax dollars from the State of Illinois. These people are citizens of the State of Illinois.
How exactly is it common sense to take our tax dollars to run the train and not offer a service to the taxpayers are are paying for it?
And 25 k to remove maybe 3 rows of seats to accomodate paying customers.
By that standard, I should have made about 5k in the time it took to write this post.
I have a question…is the cost just for removing and reinstalling the seats or do special locking devices for the wheelchairs also have to be used?
I disagree. In this case, the requirement would be that a service must be provided – moving the passenger from one place to another. For example, Amtrak could hire a handicapped bus service to move the passengers. Amtrak often provides bus service when a train cannot make a trip.
The deal about not offering a service to taxpayers who are paying for it, the following is from Access Living’s website detailing where their funds come from. It seems the tax dollars are already doing quite a bit.
https://www.accessliving.org/ar2019-2019-annual-report/2019-annual-report-our-funding/
Edit: After rereading my comment, it may sound like I disapprove of this group or their mission. That is not my intent. I’m sure they provide a needed service for people who may not be able to advocate for themselves. My point was about providing services.
I have little doubt that the guides and locking devices are required – if they are not, they surely should be. They will likely not be rudimentary tie-down straps or elastic, either. That being said, I can’t imagine they haven’t been designed to fit the seat-track anchor locations, so installing or removing them would be comparatively easy. I have not looked into what special designs for power chairs or ‘scooters’ might be provided; it is at least theoretically possible that the same programs that pay for provision of these power chairs might also pay for ‘bespoke’ attachments for transit vehicles (including Amtrak) and for the cost of modifying the vehicles to take them easily.
There is much more involved in making this conversion, though, than just unbolting a couple of rows of seats and putting in anchors. The seats must be removed from the car, possibly being partly disassembled in the process, and taken to storage. They would then have to be returned and reassembled. All at Government-sanctioned union wages. It would be nice if the location of seat storage and locking devices was all in the same place, together with tools and other required equipment, but that may not be so.
And yes, all that cost is the responsibility of the ones demanding the accommodation, not taxpayers at large. The Government subsidy is for the transportation service, not reconfiguring trains for groups of special-needs passengers. There’s a reason the ADA is built around reasonable accommodation, and reasonable accommodation for a normal train is what Amtrak provides with the present one-wheelchair-per-car installation.
Now, if I were running Amtrak, I might make a publicity item out of making this accommodation. &
Let me preface this by saying that I’m not familiar with the group in question. That being said, there are two types of disability advocacy groups–the “doers” and the “talkers”. The “doers” are organizations like Goodwill and Salvation Army. They put their money where their mouth is. They actually help disabled people make a better life for themselves. The “talkers” do nothing themselves; they just always tell others what they need to do. They even go after the doers, telling them that they’re not doing enough or doing it the wrong way. Every time I read about an advocacy group being slighted, I wonder if it’s a setup by a “talker” group. I don’t remember their names, but along with many good “doer” groups, the blind and deaf have especially radical and vocal “talker” groups.
Well just heard it on NPR at about 20 minutes past the hour. This could not be worse. NPR audiences are much more supportative of Amtrak than the general public !
$25K is about the cost of one employee for three months I suspect. Somehow I can’t think it should take that much time. The R and D for directions to remove a seat (and storage in the baggage car) shouldn’t be that much.
The person who would move seats gets $100,000 annually? No wonder Amtrak has such high operating expenses. That said, this is terrible PR, along the lines of winning the battle but losing the war.
So on this item I can understand why the Senator is upset because she was told by the past Amtrak administration prior to Andersen that one of Amtrak’s valuable reasons to exist was that it carried so many physically challenged people…then this happens under Andersen…makes Amtrak look real idiotic.[:|]
Because when you travel as a group on Amtrak you get a group discount. I believe the threshold is 20 people or more (pretty sure they were not paying full price for the tickets). Plus you can do work on the trains and socialize on them using them for “pre-meetings”.
There’s a little more to this story, which involves the kind of chairs. Amtrak notes here that “wheeled mobility device and transfer-accessible seats are limited.” When you look at Amtrak’s view of “wheeled mobility devices” you will discover that much of their ‘accessibility’ arrangement involves collapsible manual chairs rather than fancy all-terrain motorized ones … and this is where the group in question appears to be finding its “traction”. While it might be necessary to retrack seats to accommodate a pile of folded wheelchairs, the situation looks very different when everyone is in a Hoveround or equivalent … where they have to stay during the trip.
And it’s specious at best to say it’s “just two people” – it’s two people more than Amtrak has accommodation space for, on a given train. I would note with interest that if two of the five ‘wheelchair-bound’ members of the organization were to travel in collapsible wheelchairs, there would be no issue with the other three, and as Amtrak noted if the group had agreed to ‘split’ between two trains three hours apart there would have been no issue, and no excess cost, at all.
No one has mentioned the cost Amtrak mentions of taking a car out of service, switching it to a carman-accessible location (perhaps at Beech Grove), making the seat and latch changes … then repeating this process after the group has traveled. If we include the lost number of seat-miles represented here, I’m not surprised we get to a nominal $25,000 in opportunity cost. This is substantially more involved (although I don’t really know if it ‘has’ to be, based on Amtrak
Amtrak reversed its decision:
The bigger question is why Amtrak is only configured to handle on wheel chair per rail car. Do all wheel chair bound patrons travel alone?
At least one car per train should be ‘easily’ reconfigurable to accept at least 4 wheel chairs. With a sufficient number of the reconfigurable cars operating out of a terminal area that, with advance notice, even more wheel chair bound patrons can be handled with a minimum of muss and fuss.
This is not rocket science and the ADA wasn’t enacted just yesterday.