I have a Lionel 4-6-4 #665 that is very noisy. It has been completely lubed on wheels, gears, siderods, and armature shaft but it is still very noisy. It is not the e-unit because I have it disabled through the switch on top. The engine itself is in excellent condition.
Are these locos normally very noisy? Is there anything else I can do to reduce the noise?
Earl
Earl,
Try wiggling the armature shaft where it comes throught the brushplate. If you notice any movement side to side, replace the brushplate. When the hole in the brushplate wears, you will get a lot of noise.
That line of engines can be noisy, sounds like gears grinding. However if the noise is a squeel put a drop of oil on both ends of the armature shaft and that will take care of it. Not to much just a drop.
Thank you for your suggestions. I cannot detect any side to side movement in the armature shaft. The engine has been completely lubed, including the armature shaft. I guess the gears are just noisy on this engine.
I purchased the engine off eBay from Trainz. The engine was in excellent condition when I received it. It seems like the engine still needs breaking in.
All of my engines make various noises. However one engine, my prewar 225E, is smooth as silk and heardly makes any noise at all, other then the normal wheels on the rails sounds. I suspect it may have higher quality gears then my other engines.
Earl
Earl, you are 100% correct. the engines through the fortys were well designed and did run quiet and smooth. Changes in the early fiftys made them good, but the gear noise on steam engines was much different after that.
Earl,
I have the 665’s O27 cousin the 2065 and it is noisy as well. Especially when compared to my 224, 675 and early 2-6-2 2026. I’ve tried lubricating according the the Lionel instructions and it still isn’t as quiet as the others but then again, isn’t that the charm of Post War Steamers?
Mike
I have the 2055 and mine is noisy. One reason why I think it is noisy is because the shell is thin which amplifies the noise of the motor gears and E unit like on a Lionel Torpedo. It runs quieter with the shell off.
One peculiar characteristic of the noise is it is inconsistent. The noise changes randomly as it runs around the track. Sometimes the noise is relatively quiet like my other steamers. Then the noise will change to a growl and last for a while. There are other noises that I don’t know how to describe. The noise changes are not related to where the loco is on the track (curve or straight). The gears seem nice and tight and I can’t detect any wear in the armature shaft sleeves.
Earl
Hey Earl… I know you posted this weeks ago and I don’t know if you’ll get this but as to your problem, I have a 2046, same motor as 665 that does the same thing it will gowl and sqwell when it feels like it but everything looks tight. Well it annoyed me enough to figure out why… the idler gear although it looks like it’s pressed on to the shaft nice and tight and shows no apparent wobble will occasioall cock on the shaft causing a misalignment. WHEN IT DOES IT AGAIN STOP THE ENGINE… TAKE IT OFF THE TRACK PRESS FIRMLY ON THE GEAR… THE ADD A FEW DROPS OF LIGHT OIL AROUND THE SHAFT… MINE QUIETS RIGHT DOWN… it’s only a qwick fix though… permanet fix would be to replcae the gear but i don’t have a wheel puller at this time… good luck … vince
Trainguy2,
Thank you for your suggestion. I looked at the idler gear and it is quite loose and could indeed be the source of the noise. However, I put oil on the idler shaft and more grease on the gear, but it is still quite noisy. I was surprised how noisy the gears were on this engine while just turning the wheels by hand.
I plan to diassemble the engine today to see if I can find anything amiss that might be causing the random growling, but I am not confident that I will find anything. I think that a chattering idle gear might indeed be the cause of the noise.
Earl
First, let me say that this engine appears near mint and very clean. I doubt if the engine has been run much. It looks like an engine that I might have purchased new.
I disassembled the engine to see if i could find the source of the noise. Here is what I found:
The engine is well-designed but the workmanship was lacking. The screw holes were rough so the screws did not go in and out smoothly. The hole for the screw that attaches the front truck is significantly off center. The brush plate is very rough on the inner surface. The brush holders had a green corrosion on the external surface. The corrosion did not effect the electrical conductivity and was only cosmetic, but I had never seen that on brush plates before. I don’t recall ever having seen a brush plate as rough as this one was. Externally, it looks like other brush plates I have seen. There was significant burnt carbon deposits on the armature.
The hole in the brush plate where the armature rides was tight but appeared dry, even though I had lubricated the shaft with oil several times. I put some white lithium grease on it prior to assembly. I suspect that the dry hole may be the cause of the random growling. The rough brush plate material may have just been absorbing the oil I was putting on it. Hopefully, the grease will last longer.
I cleaned, reassembled, and tested the engine. The random growling is gone for now. The gear noise is still present and noisier then my other postwar locos. I think I have gotten the loco as quiet as it is ever going to get.
Earl
Earl, I think you found the problem in the loose idler gear. It allows the teeth to rub on the wheel. My 2055 (same chassis) has the same problem. Someday I plan to disassemble the engine and fit a bearing either sleeve or ball to the gear along with a new bearing shaft. As long as the gear is allowed to touch the wheel it will make the noise. As for the brush plate, when it gets bad enough, the growl will be accompanied by a slowing of the motor. I have sleeved mine with a homemade brass bushing.
Pete
My engines with that type motor do not growl when the armature shaft hole gets dry, they have a high pitched squeal and the loco will visibly slow. I would suspect the idler gears as was mentioned.
Roger