The part you have listed as 682-14 wheel spacer with boss for linkage is the stud. I don’t know why your parts dealer is calling it a spacer. I checked my 682, the piece is definately a stud that is pressed into the wheel.
Here is the real scoop on 682 parts, right from an original copy of the Lionel Service manual, page LOC-682 PL 11-59:
682-4 Boiler and Cab ($7.00)
682-5 Valve gear assembly (.75)
682-6 Eccentric crank (.15)
682-9 Wheel crank screw (.05)
682-10 Frame with magnetized wheels ($8.00)
682-11 End wheel (.40)
682-13 side rod (.20)
You will notice that part 682-14 stud is not listed. Apparently Lionel did not sell the stud seperately, just the entire wheel.
Hmmmm…I don’t think 682-10 will be needed for a conversion from a 681. Definitely don’t need 682-4 as you already have the boiler and shell from the 681. So all told it’s a pretty cheap/easy conversion and all the parts seem to be available…right? [:)] Does it look like 682-14 stud is going to be difficult to install?
Let me put it this way: there is a reason that Lionel sold the wheel with the stud already in place, and did not sell the stud seperately. Still, a determined person with the correct tools could do it.
Hey Dep, way off topic, but is that the Turbine from ebay you posted about a while back that “disappointed” you when you opened the box. It looks pretty darn good to me. I have to agree with you that the “extra” linkage adds something to an otherwise plain wheel setup on the turbine.
Dep, the valve gear linkage is held onto the wheel by the same bolt that secures the drive rod. It’s offset so that it will move as the wheel turns. See a picture at the link below:
As I had previously posted, the part number for the wheel with the special stud is 682-11. The rear wheels would use a standard 681 wheel, which was probably a 681-11.
Hi The picture is correct if the oil linkage rod was pointing forward when the train went around a curve the likage rod would knock off the front wheels Thanks
In the beginning there was Joshua LIONEL Cowen and shortly thereafter there was Madison Hardware, which became a New York institution, famous for LIONEL train sales and service. Often they were able to improvise a custom solution to a patron’s needs.
Eventually LIONEL went into the toilet and Richard Kughn saved it. He also saved Madison Hardware, moving 16 tractor-trailer loads (one source calculates 320 tons!) of LIONEL parts and equipment from New York to Detroit. Now Richard Kughn has largely (or completely) divested himself of his interest in LIONEL, and auctioned away the remaining Madison Hardware stock and closed it down, after nearly 100 years of exemplary service in two cities. I was able to find parts there that I could not find anywhere else. Personally, I miss the place.
Some of the employees of the Detroit incarnation (at least) are still alive. At least one is a member of this and/or the other 3-rail forum. One might consider using a little restraint when calling these folks crooks and scam artists, especially when it is obvious that “one” doesn’t know much history. Just my humble opinion, of course.
bfskinner: Nobody is calling any individual a crook or scam artist. But when a COMPANY engages in a deception in order to make a profit, and being a big turbine fan I have heard of more than one instance of Madison Hardware doing this conversion, then I am not going to worry a whole lot about calling that company what it was.
Just a little advise I use myself when I’m on E-Bay. Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see. When looking at something I just don’t get my hopes up and just envison the worst and when it comes your not as disapponted. But changing a 681 t a 682 is it really worth it all the time and aggravation. Plus if lionel made them small like on the real thing how many 682’s would be missing them or have them broken off. Myself still looking for a nice 671 but if I was looking for a turbine with a 682 look and didn’t care about being original just to have the look of a moving part I would try to convert A 681 but would label it as a conversion.
The company known as Madison Hardware was in New York. There was never a genuine hardware store in Michigan called Madison Hardware. Richard Kughn moved 16 truckloads of stock (Lionel trains and parts) from the once-famous but then newly defunct (as of July '89) Madison Hardware in New York to a warehouse in Detroit down near the river. Said warehouse was never a hardware store or “company” in any meaningful sense of the word, despite the use of the transplanted name “Madison Hardware.” It operated for a few years primarily as a mail-order parts outlet; sort of Richard Kughn’s “attic.” Therefore anything negative that you assert about it will land directly at the feet of Richard Kughn himself.
I don’t claim to know everything that went on in that warehouse, but once again I would suggest that you be sure of your facts before besmirching one of Richard Kughn’s personal enterprises – especially after all that he has done for Lionel and toy train fans everywhere.
If I am wrong I apologize, but I don’t think so. I challenge you to find anyone who ever bought a hammer or pair of pliers from the Madison Hardware “COMPANY” (your term) of 1915 Fort Street, Detroit; or who will swear (or affirm) that the staff there modified 681’s and deliberately misrepresented them as 682’s in order to increase profits. Please be specific about your sources of information. Your move. [:)]
I suggest you look at my original post concerning the faking of the 682. I posted Madison Hardware? I don’t know if it was them or some other company that used their name. That’s why I put the ? after the name. All I know is there are a LOT more 682 locos floating around than were originally made and the info I read said Madison hardware was the source. And you can add 2671 tenders with lights in the back to the list of fakes done by SOME company using spare parts. Please put away your lawyer’s briefcase. This is much ado about ancient history. The facts are the fakes were made and sold to the public as something they WEREN’T at a considerable hike in price. It may have been done with the blessing of the company or by individuals on their own. Actually, I agree with PhilaKnight. I don’t give two squirts if my 682 is a fake or the real deal. I paid what I consider is a reasonable amount for it and I am happy. Did the REAL Madison Hardware do the fakes? Was it just rebel employees doing it to make some quick profits? Or was it endorsed by the company bosses. I doubt we will ever know the truth. I am done with this discussion. It is going nowhere and will only result in someone getting mad. Have a nice day
