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Classic Trains General Discussion
1341

CHICAGO
ROCK ISLAND
&
PACIFIC
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The Rock Island owned a total of forty-eight lightweight streamlined sleeping cars and two modernized heavy-weights assigned to joint service with the CB&Q in the ZEPHYR-ROCKET.
The first streamlined sleeping cars operated by the Rock Island in one of there own trains were those assigned to the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET between Chicago and Colorado Springs-Denver beginning November 12, 1939. For one season the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET carried a Sleeping car between Kansas City and Denver that joined the westbound ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET at Belleville, Kansas and eastbound it was set out at that point. The eastbound sleeping car between Denver and Kansas City operated as a Parlor Car instead of as a sleeping car. The ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET was a double destination train with the westbound train being split at Limon, Colorado in the morning and the two parts continued as separate trains one to Colorado Springs the other to Denver. Each afternoon the Denver and Colorado Springs sections were reassembled at Limon for the trip east to Chicago.
One sleeping car the 8 Section 2 Compartment 2 Double Bedroom and the 30’ Railway Post Office 44 revenue seat coach were the Colorado Springs section of the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET. The Denver section of the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET consisted of a Baggage Car, 52-revenue seat Coach, and 32 seat Dining 14 seat Lounge car, 10 Section 4 Roomette Sleeping car, and 5 Double Bedroom Buffet 9 seat Cocktail Lounge 17 seat Lounge Observation. All sleeping cars in the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET were built by Pullman Standard and all other cars came from Budd.

10 SECTION 4 ROOMETTE SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard October 1939 Plan: 4088 Lot: 6586 (Built for and assigned to ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET between Chicago and Denver)

ODESSA LAKE

LAWN LAKE

8 SECTION 2 COMPARTMENT 2 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard October 1939 Plan: 4058C Lot

1342

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

More on the Canadian National Railways of the Fallen Flags from The Official Guide of the Railways - Aug 1956

Canadian National Railways

Canadian National

Super Continental - Dieselized all the way

Faster daily service between

MONTREAL - OTTAWA - TORONTO - WINNIPEG - SASKATOON - EDMONTON - JASPER - VANCOUVER

No Extra Fare

Westward - Read down …Eastward - Read up
Example…Daily … Daily …Example

Sunday…4 00 P.M. … Lv. Montreal … E.T. … Ar. …5 05 P.M. … Wednesday
Sunday…6 00 P.M. … Ar. Ottawa…E.T…Lv…3 05 P.M. …Wednesday
Sunday…6 10 P.M. … Lv Ottawa…E.T. …Ar. …2 50 P.M. … Wednesday

Sunday…6 00 P.M. … Lv. Toronto…E.T. …Ar. …2 15 P.M. … Wednesday

Monday…10 25 P.M. …Ar. Winnipeg…C.T. …Lv. …8 20 A.M. … Tuesday
Monday…10 50 P.M. … Lv. Winnipeg…C.T. …Ar. …7:55 A.M. … Tuesday
Tuesday… 8 00 A.M. … Ar. Saskatoon…M.T. …Lv. …8 50 P.M. … Monday
Tuesday…8 10 A.M. …Lv. Saskatoon…M.T. …Ar. …8 40 P.M. … Monday
Tuesday…3 10 P.M. …Ar. Edmonton…M.T. …Lv. …1 50 P.M. … Monday
Tuesday…3 25 P.M. …Lv. Edmonton…M.T. …Ar. …1 35 P.M. … Monday
Tuesday…8:55 P.M. …Ar. Jasper…P.T. …Lv. …8 15 A.M. …Monday
Tuesday…8 05 P.M. …Lv. Jasper…P.T. …Ar. … 7 05 A.M. …Mon

1343

CANADIAN
NATIONAL
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The Canadian National Railway operated trains in every Province of Canada the only one of the two transcontinental systems to do so. The Canadian National operated passenger trains in each Canadian Province. But passenger trains with sleeping cars were also operated in every Canadian Province. The vastness of Canada can only be appreciated when one rides a train from Coast to Coast across Canada from Halifax to Vancouver via the CN. Another route was St. John to Vancouver via CP. Unfortunately today one can ride the VIA Rail train from Halifax to Vancouver only using the former CN route. Instead of catching the western train in Montreal today one boards in Toronto so one has to ride three different trains instead of two to travel coast to coast.
The Canadian National was one of the largest operators of passenger trains and owners of Sleeping cars in North America. The CNR not only placed large orders for streamlined Sleeping cars with Pullman Standard in the 1950’s but would later purchase many used sleeping cars from U. S. roads as there requirements for these type of cars diminished as services ended on many routes. The CN even leased sleeping cars during the Expo - 67 Worlds Fair in Montreal from several U.S. Railroads.
The Canadian National owned by the Government of Canada during this period was probably the most aggressive railroad in North America when it came to promoting rail passenger travel.
The Canadian National had purchased large numbers of heavyweight sleeping cars prior to WW II and was in reasonably good shape following the war when they undertook a program of modernizing many of these older Sleeping cars. The work included either Turtle Roof or arch roof, modern Double Pane Safety glass windows and newer air conditioning and refurbishing of interiors. The work included repainting inside and out. Rival Canadian Pacific had embarked on a similar program with their older sleeping cars about the sa

1344

G’day!

Something from the old days . . . .

CN Transcontinental (1963)
(credit: Canada Science & Technology Museum, Ottawa)

Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

1345

Although not a part of Tom’s earlier list, but at least moving in the right direction alphabetically, here’s a D&H train led by RS2 4008, as photographed by Barney Stone. No date (in a 1949-1955 era Kodachrome mount) or location info, so if anyone has any thoughts, please let me know.

Enjoy!

Art

1346

Good Afternoon Captain Tom

My compliments to you this fine day! My lady has found a couple of photos that my fit in with what you are featuring today . . . hopefully these are not copy protected, for my intent is hardly to steal . . . credit given where credit may be found!

CN Super Continental at Lake Louise - 1966
(from: trainweb.org - photo: Ron Goodenow)

CN Super Continental at Frazier River Canyon - 1966
(from: trainweb.org - photo: Ron Goodenow)

BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada’s high mountain country!

1347

Art Having looked at the picture of the D&H I would guess an early day Laurentian with the RS unit. Few D&H trains except those between Montreal and New York operated with a RPO. Cant imagine the location, but it appears to be doing some switching and the Laurentian of that period operated a dining car only part way so is it picking up a diner. I believe the Dining-Parlor car combinations only operated between Troy and Montreal. South of Albany the through cars were operated in an NYC train. This is only my guessing so don’t hold me to it. The RS looked right at home leading that consist.

Enjoyed the Super Continental photos from BK and Tom. I personally always enjoyed the Super Continental it was a far friendlier train the rival CP Canadian and it always operated with longer consist then its CP rival.

TTFN Al.

1348

Hi Al -

Thanks for the thoughts on the D&H shot! Also wanted to ask you about an ex-NYC car that the RI bought - specifically “Pacific Shore” (also carried RI number 481, if I remember correctly). I understand that it had been named “Atlantic Shore” while on the NYC. What’s the interior configuration, build date and RI acquisition date for this car?

Art

1349

G’day!

A bit of activity over here I see . . . nice Pix from Art 'n BK!!

Art - Just used that list for the day it was “up” - now we’re movin’ on. [swg] By the by - that Pix of yours just fills the screen . . . gotta be a better way, wouldn’t ya think [?] Love the D&H and never get tired of the wonderful blue livery of the Alcos.

D&H ALCO PA1 #18 (copyright: Corel Corp.)

Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

1350

Art,
The Twentieth Century Ltd. Mid Train Lounges 10572 ATLANTIC SHORE and 10573 - LAKE SHORE were delivered by Pullman Standard in August-September 1948. Each car as built beginning from the boarding vestibule end had a toilet on the right side of the car and a porters section on the left. next was a 30 seat lounge. The lounge was quite spacious with tables for four tables for two and single seats as well as sofas, next was a bar folloed by the secretaries room with an annnex for the telephone. and last was the barber shop with an annex for the shower.
The two cars received new NYC numbers 10703 and 10704 in August 1958.
In March 1959 both cars were sold to the Rock Island who immediatly renamed Atlantic Shore to Pacific Shore. Car numbers were 481 PACIFIC SHORE and 482 LAKE SHORE. Rock Island removed the Barber Chair and made a card room of the former Barber shop with table and seating for four although apparently seating was expandable to six. The Secretary Room was used as a open room with seating for two and the the Telephone annex and Shower annexs were kept locked and no longer used. The lounge seating was reduced to 24 and the cars were assigned to GOLDEN STATE consists. In 1961 the two cars lounges were redecorated and seating was increased to 28.
Pacific Shore went to the Western New York Historical Society in 1984 after a few years of private ownership. The LAKE SHORE was retired and scrapped in 1971.

Hope this helps.

TTFN Al

1351

G’day!

Something for the 20th Century Ltd . . .

NYC 20th Century Ltd southbound along Hudson River - 1947
(from: 20th Century Ltd - foto: Bruce Wolfe collection)

Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

1352

Continuing the series.
Great
Northern
(GN)
Streamlined Dome Cars
by Al

The Great Northern was the last of the northern transcontinental railways to add domes to their premier train between Chicago and Seattle-Portland. The first of the northwest roads to add domes to their premier train was the Milwaukee Road who added Super Domes to the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA beginning in December 1952. The next of the northwest trains to add domes was the NP NORTH COAST LIMITED with a pair of dome coaches added to each consist in August 1954 and a pair of dome sleeping cars added in November 1954 between Chicago and Pasco. The UP would have three Domes operating in each CITY OF PORTLAND train set by May 1955. One each of Astra-Dome Coach, Astra-Dome Dining Car and Astra-Dome Lounge Observation in each train set between Chicago and Portland. Even the CP CANADIAN was operating domes a month before the GN received the first of their domes in May 1955.
The GN EMPIRE BUILDER would be the first and only train in the US prior to Auto-Train to operate both short domes and a full-length dome in the same consist. When the GN went with domes they spared no expense beginning in May 1955 when three short dome leg rest coaches were added to each of the EMPIRE BUILDERS five consists. Two of the Great Dome coaches were through Chicago – Seattle cars while the third was a Chicago – Portland car operating between Spokane and Portland over the SP&S who would own one of the Great Dome coaches built for the EMPIRE BUILDER by Budd. The CB&Q who operated the EMPIRE BUILDER between Chicago and St. Paul owned three of these Budd built Great domes.
These Coach Domes built for the EMPIRE BUILDER were flat sided cars from Budd as were those built the year before for the NP NORTH COAST LIMITED. The cars were painted in the Omaha Orange, Pullman Green paint scheme with dulux gold separation stripes and lettering. They were an immediate hit with the traveling public. These were the standard

1353

G’day!

Here’s something that was Posted over at the bar some months back . . .

Now arriving on track #1 ……
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Eleven

Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad (D&RG)

Locale: Western United States

Reporting marks: DRGW

Dates of operation: 1870 – 1988

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Original track gauge: , and 3 ft (914 mm)

Headquarters: Denver, Colorado


D&RGW logo used 1908-1921


Rio Grande Industries logo used 1970-1997

The Denver and Rio Grande Railroad (DRG or D&RG) generally referred to as the Rio Grande, became the Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad (DRGW or D&RGW) in 1920. The D&RGW served mainly as transcontinental bridge line between Denver, Colorado, and Salt Lake City, Utah, and a major origin of coal and mineral traffic with a motto of Through the Rockies, not around them. The Rio Grande was the epitome of mountain railroading, operating the highest mainline rail line in the United States over 10,240 ft (3121 m) Tennessee Pass in Colorado and t

1354

Hi Al -

Thanks for the RI “Pacific Shore” info!

Art

1355

Good Afternoon Captain Tom

Just stopped by after having visited the bar - dropped off my “daily” over there. Nice work with the PRR!

Just thought of something - perhaps we should have an “Ask Al” feature - then provide the ANSWERS over at the bar - that may be the way to attract some “new blood”!!

So, what do we have here today [?] Ah, Rio Grande . . . alright, try this one . . .

1948 Rio Grande ads

Finally something I can contribute to! [swg]

BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada’s high mountain country!

1356

Denver
&
Rio Grande
Western
(D&RGW)
Streamlined Dome Cars
by Al

The Denver & Rio Grande Western was one of three operating partners along with the Chicago Burlington & Quincy and Western Pacific of America’s most famous cruise train the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR.
The D&RGW operated this famous streamliner between Denver and Salt Lake City in its crossing of the Rockies. The eastbound and westbound VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYRS generally if operating on time would pass one another in Glenwood Canyon one of the most scenic areas of the entire Chicago- San Francisco journey.
The new cars for the jointly owned VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR began arriving almost a year before the train entered service March 20, 1949.
It required 6-eleven car consists for daily service in each direction. A total of 67-cars were originally constructed for the new trains Ownership of the cars was apportioned based on the mileage each of the railroads operated the new trains.
Largest owner of VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR cars was CB&Q with 27 increased to 34 in 1952. Followed by the WP with 24 increased to 26 in 1952. The D&RGW owned 15 increased to 16 in 1952. The PRR owned a single 10-6 sleeper for through New York – Chicago service.
Of the total of 67 original cars built for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR, 30 were Vista-Domes. Only one of the ten new cars added in 1952 was a Vista-Dome car.
The D&RGW owned six Vista-Domes of the original order for cars.
The description of each of these car types is found in the CB&Q chapter of the book.
The D&RGW owned four Vista-Dome 46-leg rest seat dome-coaches, one Vista-Dome Crew Dormitory Buffet Lounge car and a Vista-Dome 3-double bedroom 1-drawing room bar lounge Observation.
All VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR cars were delivered in their natural stainless steel finish with a panel centered above the windows wit

1357

G’day Captain Tom

What’s WRONG with this PICTURE [?] More info being passed around here than over at the bar! Now that’s upside down, isn’t it [?] We need to talk!

Good Pennsy stuff over at “Our” Place - and sorry to say I haven’t the time to spend here today. I see there’s been a decent amount of ‘stuff’ already, so anything I could find would simply be “fodder.”

Until the next time!

Lars

1358

DENVER
&
RIO GRANDE
WESTERN
Streamlined Coaches
by Al

On November 17, 1941 the Rio Grande inaugurated streamlined PROSPECTORS between Denver and Salt Lake City via the Moffat Tunnel and Dotsero cutoff. These overnight two car Budd built self propelled mini streamliners were withdrawn from service eight months later never to operate again. Each car had two under floor mounted Hercules Diesels powering generators that supplied power to the truck mounted traction motors. The lead unit in the M-1 and M-2 train sets contained a Control Cab – Baggage Compartment-44 revenue seat Coach. The second car in each train set contained 8 Pullman Sections 2 Chambrettes Buffet 8 seat Dinette 4 seat Lounge Observation. The two units of the M-I set were named JOHN EVANS and DAVID MOFFAT; the two units in the M-2 seat were named BRIGHAM YOUNG and HEBER C. KIMBALL.
The D&RGW would become one of the operating partners in the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYRS inaugurated March 20, 1949 between Chicago and Oakland. By way of the CB&Q between Chicago and Denver, D&RGW between Denver and Salt lake City, and the WP between Salt Lake City and Oakland Pier where ferryboats carried the passengers to San Francisco. The D&RGW who operated the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR the shortest distance owned just over one of the six consists of this train. The complete consists of the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR were discussed in the CB&Q chapter so will not be discussed here. The D&RGW owned four of the Vista Dome 46 revenue seat Leg Rest Coaches one of these being originally designated the Women & Children’s car with a door separating this section from the rest of the car. When this door was removed from 1105 SILVER BRONCO it was just another Vista Dome Coach. The only other coaches ever assigned to the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR was the 48 seat Leg Rest Coaches rebuilt from the 16 section sleeping cars during the 1960’s. The two RIO GRANDE cars 1120 SILVER ASPEN and 1121 SILVER PINE were both rebuilt to 48 revenue seat Leg Rest Coaches in Octob

1359

G’day!

Here’s something previously Posted over at the bar some months back . . . .

Now arriving on track #1 ……
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Twelve

Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

Great Northern Railway (GN)

Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

Locale: Chicago, Illinois, to Seattle, Washington

Reporting marks: GN

Dates of operation: – 1970

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Headquarters: St. Paul, Minnesota

(copied per terms of GNU Free Documentation License)
A Great Northern EMD F7 Locomotive.

The Great Northern Railway (AAR reporting mark GN), running from St. Paul, Minnesota to Seattle, Washington — more than 1,700 miles (2,736 km) — was the privately-financed creation of the 19th century railroad tycoon James J. Hill.

It crossed the Mississippi River on the Stone Arch Bridge in Minneapolis, near the Saint Anthony Falls, the only waterfall on the Mississippi. The bridge ceased to be used as a railroad bridge in 1978 and is now used as a pedestrian river cross

1360

GREAT
NORTHERN
(GN)
Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al

The Great Northern became the first railroad to introduce new streamlined full service long distance trains following WW II. Pullman Standard between December 1946 and February 1947 delivered five train sets consisting of twelve cars each in time for the new EMPIRE BUILDERS inaugural February 23, 1947. Each of the new train sets featured three feature cars a 19-crew dormitory 10-seat lunch counter 10-seat lounge car, 36-seat dining car and a 2-double bedroom 1-drawing room buffet 27-seat lounge observation. The lunch counter dining car and the 36-seat dining car operated on a St. Paul-Chicago-Seattle-St. Paul cycle while all other cars operated Chicago-Seattle-Chicago. The lunch counter-lounge car was primarily for the use of coach passengers and the 36-seat dining car was for both coach and Pullman passengers. The sleeper-lounge observation was reserved for Pullman passengers only. One complete set of equipment was CB&Q owned the other four were Great Northern owned. The GN modernized and semi-streamlined a heavyweight dining car 1032 MINNESOTA, for standby service in the EMPIRE BUILDER if it became necessary to substitute for one of the trains fully streamlined diners. It was difficult to see if this car was operating in a EMPIRE BUILDER consist as the streamlining accomplished on this car by GN shops was excellent, the telltale was the six-wheel trucks under this car. The three feature cars of the 1947 edition of the EMPIRE BUILDER were both numbered and named.

19-CREW DORMITORY 10-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 10-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard January-February 1947 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER later WESTERN STAR)

GN

1140 WATERTON LAKE

1141 ST. MARY LAKE

1142 TWO MEDICINE LAKES

1143 COEUR D’ALENE LAKE

CB&Q

1144 RED EAGLE LAKE

36-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard January – February 1947 (B