A Classic REAL Trains 'n Traction FOTO site!

Classic Trains General Discussion
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The theme of this Thread has evolved into a foto Posting site - just one per visit will be fine! If we can generate a discussion as a result, even better! [tup]

<amended: 05 Nov 2007>

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The original first Post saved for posterity! [swg]

The idea of this thread is for the discussion of passenger rail travel that falls into the Classic Trains category. If you follow what Kalmbach features in their magazine, then you know what the definition of classic should be.

I only ask that we maintain a degree of civility with the Posts and shy away from being [#offtopic].

So, here goes - who wants to be first to discuss a passenger train trip, or share passenger train knowledge, or both for our Inuagural Run [?]

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Hello Captain Tom,

Pehaps I will be the first to respond to your new idea.

My story involves a trip between Göteborg and Stockholm, Sweden back in the mid-90s aboard the “tilt train” referred to as the X2000.

My memory is not quite as vivid as many of you out there who thrive on these kinds of recollections. I prefer rail travel, but am not what one may consider to be a rail fan nor am I a hobbyist. Mine is to use that mode for travel when it best fits into the time I have available.

X2000 provides all types of innovative approaches to passenger rail travel, many of which have since been incorporated elsewhere. For example: Automatic Train Control which can stop the train should a signal “back” not be received; Parking brakes and anti-slip devices that are electronic in operation; magnetic emergency braking that can stop a speeding train at 125 mph in about 3/4 of a mile; asynchronous traction motors used to power the car’s four axles; and of course the “tilt” mechanism that kicks in when rounding curves.

The consist we had that particular run featured the locomotive and I believe 5 or 6 cars, each with specific interior designs and purposes. I traveled in First Class in the 2nd car back from the locomotive - I think.

I recall the cars being “done” rather fashionably, although a bit on the “plastic” side - sterile might be a better word. Some passengers appeared to be a bit uncomfortable with the motion of the car, causing a feeling of “sea sickness.” Fortunately, no one found a reason to experience projectile vomiting in the car I traveled in!

My recollection is that I had no dificulty navigating the passageways heading to and from other cars, asI visited the bar car a few times to sample the Swedish brew and other delights. I could have waited for the on board Hostess, but wanted to stretch my legs during that just a bit under 4 hour journey.

I do not wi***o make comparisons with other trains, such as

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Hey BK!

Thanx for the Post and by all means do it again for the guys at the bar.

Enjoyed the X2000 info and it brought back some memories of my own of European railroading.

Tom

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My most memorable train trip was a Twofur. I don’t remember the exact year but it was about a year or two (before or after) the end of WWII. My father’s job as a sales manager involved a lot of travel and on one trip to Minneapolis he decide to give me a treat by taking me along. Ordinarily he would have left on a sunday to be at the convention on monday but for this trip we left on saturday via the Milw Afternoon Hiawatha. From my frequent fanning at the Canal St crossing I knew that this train generally had a diesel, which I hadn’t ridden behind at that point (except for a trip to Omaha on the Denver Zephyr, which made very little impression at age 3 or 4). Imagine my disapointment when we turned under the C&NW overpass and the billowing steam indicated we had one of those “old fasioned” F-7 Hudsons on the point. At that time the Milw public timetables had a chart w/ a picture of a milepost so you could time the seconds between mileposts and calculate your speed. We broke 100MPH once between Chicago and Milwaukee and twice across Wisconson west of Milwaukee. A highlight was shortly after passing through the only tunnel on the route seeing wisps of steam over an adjacent C&NW line. We caught up with the psgr tran like it was standing still and when we got to the engine the siderods where thrashing up a storm. It was probably doing 60MPH or better, but at our speed seemed to be just loafing along.
The return trip I made solo on the C&NW 400. Here there was no need watch out for mileposts since there was a speedometer in the rear of the observation car. Going through the North Shore suburbs of Chicago it hit 112MPH. Considering that this area is pretty much solidly urban and that the crossing gates at that time were manually operated with oil fueld red lighs on the gates it was a bit scary.
The trip would have been impossible a little in the future since the ICC imposed 99MPH maximum speed in 1947 or 48.

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Hi Jim!

Appreciate the submission and willngness to participate! [tup][tup]

Sounds like your experiences were at an age when mine also began with riding trains. It truly was a great era in U.S. and Canadian railroading back then …

There are some guys who frequent “Our” Place - an adult eating 'n drinking establishment - on this Forum who have similar interests … [swg]

Catch ya later!

Tom

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Hello Captain Tom,

Perhaps I can help keep this idea of yours going by digging through my extremely limited contributions to the bar … ah, here’s one some may find interesting:

I am not one for the type of story you may be looking for, but here is something I recall from several years ago – too many in fact.

It was a dark and stormy night …… no, actually it was a very clear and star filled night crossing the plains in Saskatchewan Province en route Vancouver. I had boarded the train in Winnipeg, having completed my business there and decided to kill off my free weekend by taking CP Rail’s “The Canadian” to the west coast. The train in those days was in the livery of the CP “Pacman” logo and in that “action red” color. Did not care for either very much, but the cars were what was important to me (and for you too Tom, as I understand it!). My bedroom was in a Chateau series sleeping car and I wound up with a double at no extra fare. I had requested to know what the fare was for a double room for single occupancy and the ticket agent simply booked one and that was that. Nice gesture I thought.

During that era it did not seem as if the tourist trade had taken over the route the way it has since VIA Rail entered the picture. Cutting back those trains to 3 departures per week has added to the crowded trains. But I digress.

I spent a bit of time back in the Park car (Strathcona seems to ring a bell) and was having a rather spirited conversation with two RCMP officers who were on holiday, having come down from Churchill and also en route Vancouver. Well, by the time the last call was sounded, we had pretty much emptied the inventory of the “spirits” we preferred. That did not dampen the enthusiasm for my new found companions, as they begged their leave, to indicate they would return shortly. And that they did – with each holding an Imperial quart of Canadian Club and VO whiskey. Where did it come from and how? Why from the baggage car, where else?

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Hi BK

Thanx again for your submission … [tup] A great story and one that conjurs up all kinds of thoughts. The kinda trip some of us would love to take! [swg]

See ya at the bar!

Tom

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Here’s a Post from “my” past with another thread that may be of interest here. Definitely a tale of Classic Trains! [tup]

I don’t know why, but as of late, I’ve been thinking about an RDC (Rail Diesel Car) trip I took with my wife and a couple of friends back in 1999.

We were visiting Vancouver, BC and on what was supposed to be an “off day” - (they do what they want, we do what we want), I looked into booking a trip aboard BC Rail’s “Cariboo Prospector” (that IS the way they spelled it) from North Vancouver to Lillooet, BC. The round trip was to take the entire next day with a 7 AM departure and return at 9 PM.

When the other couple found out what I had in mind, they too wanted to come along. So, I booked the four tickets and off we went.

The consist awaiting us that chilly March morning was four RDC’s - from my pictures, it appears that we had two RDC3’s and two RDC1’s. The livery was the blue/white striped with blue red heralds.

For those who may not know, an RDC3 was designed as a combined passenger, baggage-express, and mail car. Over the years, BC Rail (formerly Pacific Great Eastern Railway) had these cars “rehabed” to provide a food preparation area in the baggage area. The coach portions were outfitted to include swing down tray tables (similar but larger that what the airlines use) along with much more comfortable seating than I recall when commuting aboard the Boston & Maine’s RDC’s back in the 1960’s.

The RDC1 was initially designed to seat 89 passengers. BC Rail’s version appeared to be about the same, but with the upgraded seating.

Our seats were in the RDC3 for both legs of the journey.

That morning was a gloomy, low overhanging cloudy start to the day. As we wound our way out of North Vancouver and followed the route to Squamish, I was a bit saddened that my wife would not get the beautiful view of the inlets off of Howe Sound. Really a picturesque place to see …

From the trai

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Good day, Sir!

As I have mentioned at the bar, I will be away for awhile, but plan to post something here before I go. I think this idea has fruit to bear, it just may take a bit of time. Don’t be discouraged. There are people out there who enjoy sharing stories of their rail riding experiences, just a matter of attracting the attention.

My passenger train experiences are largely with European roads, and I do not have notebooks or other means to call them back; just a memory.

Your accounts of the BC Rail trip does bring to mind some experiences I have had in that part of the world and they were all good. My idea of a long distance rail trip takes into account a mindset that one may wi***o think about: try to avoid being in a hurry and avoid comparisons with those luxury tourist “traps” called trains. My preference is to take in the ambiance of the true passenger train experience, from the waiting room to the boarding to the trip itself and then the disembarkation. It all lends itself to the benefit one should come away with regarding that kind of a trip. Of course my motivation is somewhat different in that I rarely book a trip simply for the pleasure, but seemingly always come away - pleased!

BK

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Good Evening Captain Tom,

My contribution tonight is something from Europe and the German railways. These locomotives pulled many a passenger train and fall within the category of this thread.

First – the Royal Bavarian State Railway (KBStB), 1908

Class S 3/6 4-6-2 (1923 series)

Axleload: 39,500lb (18t)

Cylinders, HP (2) 16.7 X 24.0in (425 X 610mm)

Driving wheels: 73.6in (1.870mm)

Heating surface: 2.125sq ft (197.4m2)

Superheater: 798sq ft (74.2m2)

Steam pressure: 228psi (16kg/cm2)

Grate area: 48.8sq ft (4.5m2)

Fuel: 18,800lb *8.5t)

Water: 6,030gal (7.240US)

Adhesive weight: 116,000lb (53t)

Total weight: 328,500lb (149t)

Length overall: 69ft 11in (21,317mm)

Second – Royal Prussian Union Railway (KPEV), 1922

Class P10 2-8-2

Tractive effort: 40,400lb (18,200kg)

Axle load: 43,00lb (19.5t)

Cylinders: (3) 20.5 x 26.0in (520 x 660mm)

Driving wheels: 68.9in (1,750mm)

Heating surface: 2.348sq ft (218.2m2)

Superheater; 883sq ft (82m2)

Steam pressure: 200psi (14kg/cm2)

Grate area: 43.8sq ft (4.07m2)

Fuel: 15,430lb (7.0t)

Water: 6,930gal (8,320 us) (31.5m3)

Adhesive weight: 167,000lb (77t)

Total weight: 243,500lb (110.5t)

Length overall: 75ft 5in (22,980mm)

Third – German Federal Railway (DB) 1953

Class 01.10 4-6-2

Tractive effort: 37,200lb (16,830kg)

Axle load: 44,500lb (20.2t)

Cylinders: (3) 19.7 x 26.0 in (500 x 600mm)

Driving wheels: 78x7in (2,000mm)

Heating surface: 2,223sq ft (206.5m2)

Superheater: 1,035sq ft (96.2m2)

Steam pressure: 227.6psi (16kg/cm2)

Grate area: 42.6sq ft (3.96m2)

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Well jeez,-thats the last time I step into Boris shed a week before his birthday,by da*n Ive got aches & pains where I didnt know I had places—this has been a very rough week,and the worst of it is,the official birthday is tomorrow-Weve got to do it all again,but next time,could one of the grown-ups please take charge--Our favourite science project will be meeting & greeting guests from 7.30 ( all time zones........) prior to embarcation on the "Our Place" chartered Special-travelling from the back of "Our Place" to the top of the hill,where customers will be presented with a choice of the local home-brews & snacks,prior to experiencing a traditional "Old Country" wedding--those that find that degree of bloodshed upsetting will naturally be excused..............In a desparate attempt to re-introduce the railway theme to the conversation,the news from this side of the water is gloomy-the onset of the rainy season has brought progress on the layout to a halt,the stock has been boxed up` for the winter-an extensive program of vehicle lettering,weathering and general authenticating ( a made up word ) is called for…stay tuned for pix,scenic development remains a strong possibility-and much needed.
Finally got recording of band into some kind of shape-12 tracks of all your favourites,played in a strange and faintly disturbing way…[^]…[C=:-)]

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Evenin’ Guys!

Thanx again BK for supporting this idea! Even though I’ve seen the German “tech” stuff before, it IS an interesting twist on the subject and something not seen on the Forums that often …

Hey Nick, methinks you are on the WRONG thread! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

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(click to enlarge)

Well, it IS Halloween, after all! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

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G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #1

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this out …….

Many of the passenger railroads we’ve heard of and perhaps traveled aboard, had their start up in the 1800’s and early 1900’s. Check out these names of perhaps the best known:

Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe (1863)
Atlantic Coast Line (1900)
Baltimore & Ohio (1827) #1
Boston & Maine (1835)
Canadian Pacific (1881)
Chesapeake & Ohio (1867)
Chicago & Northwestern (1859)
Chicago, Burlington & Quincy (1855)
Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul (“The Milwaukee Road,” 1874)
Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific (1866)
Erie (1859)
Great Northern (1889)
Illinois Central (1851)
Kansas City Southern (1900)
Lehigh Valley (1855)
Louisville & Nashville (1850)
Missouri Pacific (1879)
New York Central (1914, although the formal adoption of that name came later)
New York, Chicago & St. Louis (“Nickel Plate Road,” 1881)
Norfolk & Western (1881)
Northern Pacific (1864)
Pennsylvania Railroad (1846)
Seaboard Air Line (1900)
Southern Pacific (1884)
Southern Railway (1887)
Union Pacific (1862)
Wabash (1877)
Western Pacific (1903)

[source:] The American Passenger Train

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

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The New York Central names predates 1914. The New York Central was formed in the 19th century by merging 10 shortlines to form an Albany to Buffalo (with some route duplication) line. It became part of the Vanderbilt empire when Commodore Vanderbilt (who died in the 1870s) gained control of it … through trickery of course … and merged it with the Hudson River Railroad. For some time it was known as the New York Central and Hudson River Railroad and shared Grand Central Station with the New York and Harlem and the New York and New Haven. All three lines’ names graced the facade. I’ve no idea when “and Hudson River” was dropped.

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Thanx for the response ForestRump. [tup]

One of the aspects of Posting on these Forums that I have tried to follow is providing sources for information … as you can see, I have done that. I’m in no position to defend, argue or refute that which was provided in the book I used. However, I have checked an additional source (Classic American Railroads) and here is what I found:

I don’t doubt for a second that the New York Central has a longer and more storied history than the “one liner” in the run down given.

Appreciate the input … and hope you’ll stop by again! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

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Hi Guys!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #2

Here’s a little something taken from the literature associated with the California-Zephyr and its Vista-Dome sleeper observation-lounge:

Rest and Relaxation in the ”Vista-Dome” Lounge-Observation Car

The spacious and luxurious lounge-observation car at the rear of the train and immediately behind the sleeping cars, furnishes congenial lounging facilities on three different levels for as many as fifty passengers.

Modern ingenious designing and expert fabrication combine to make a composite unit of four distinctly separate accommodations in this exquisite car.

The ‘main floor” lounge is located within the gracefully rounded end of the observation car. Here, deeply-cushioned occasionally chairs and settees, in shades of sandalwood and brown in a setting of rose-tan and petal beige, invite complete relaxation.

Carpeted and individually-lighted steps from the lounge lead to the distinctive air-conditioned “Vista-Dome – tastefully decorated in tones of sandalwood. Here, enclosed in shatter-proof, glare-resistant glass, are twenty-four deep-cushioned seats, where passengers may ride in comfort and enjoy a complete view in every direction.

Nestled beneath the Dome is a buffet. Tastefully decorated in rose and gray-green, it provides a delightful rendezvous in which to speed the miles and minutes. At one end of the buffet is a refreshment counter with carved linoleum base and back bar of stainless steel and etched mirrors. Electric refrigeration units assure an ample supply of cool, refreshing beverages at all times. The buffet has a telephone connection with the dining car, over which table reservations can be made.

Forward from the buffet are three bedrooms and a drawing room, each having enclosed

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Road the obs on the California Zephyr on one trip, the California Service on a round trip and the Reio Grande Zephyr over 30 times. Marvelous cars. Mountain View and Tower View on the Broadway Limited were marvelous cars to ride, ditto the obs on the 20th Century and the Silver Meteor. But I remember best my private varnish excursions by being one of Richard Horstman’s “Share of Expenses” Guests on Lehigh Valley 353, including a Seattle - New York trip via Salt Lake City and Denver.

Equal was Morie Kliebolt selling me a special ticket for use of the NOMAD between Durango and Silverton and return, and then Tom Long, Leonard Bersntein’s predicessor, letting us rent the Wiliiam Jackson Palmer for Durango - Farmington and return. For the return we purchased supplies in a modern Farmington supermarket and cooked our own really guormet dinner on the return. Meanwhile, some coach passsenger kids asked us if they could use the back platform to fly a kite! So here was the 2-8-2, the gondola with fans, several open platform coaches, the William Jackson Palmer with smoke from the stove exiting its chimney, and the smell of steak dinner, and kids on the back platform flying a kite, entering Durgano, summer 1962. A site never repeated yet!

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Hi Dave

Glad the NOSTALGIA #2 “worked” for you! [tup]

Appreciate the comments …

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

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When I was 15 I took the UP from Sacramento, California to Council Bluffs, Iowa to spend the summer with my Grandmother. I was seated in coach and the trip took a couple of days. As the trip progressed I was befriended by both the conductor and the Pullman Porter who, as far as I know, was in charge of the Pullman sleeper which was the car next in line with my coach. we were scheduled to arrive in Ogden sometime during the night and somewhere west of Ogden I had fallen asleep.

About 1 A.M. I was awakened by the porter who asked me if I’d like to see the Great Salt Lake. When I said I certainly would he nodded and started walking to the end of the car. I stood up and followed. When we were in the vestibule he opened the top part of the passenger car door and the odor of cool salt air blew in. The moon was up and it was a very clear night and the two of us just stood there and watched. Finally, he broke the silence and said, " I’ve made this run more times than I can remember but this is always my favorite part of the trip, a cool night, salt air, and the sound of the train on the rails." We stood there until we left the lake then he closed the top part of the door and told me I’d better get back to my seat and get some more sleep. He turned back towards his car and I went back into the coach and went back to sleep.

That trip was over 40 years ago but the memory of viewing the Great Salt Lake at night from the vestibule of a passenger car is as fresh as if it happened 10 minutes ago.