I still have a few brass, A Katsumi two cylinder shay and two other shays by others. The Katsumi runs great, always have, the other two, think one is a United and the other KTM won’t run properly, might want to put in the work eventually to get them to work right but they won’t be an easy fix. I have lots of chances to buy brass now for cheap but I just pass them up. The one brass I would consider (a shop engine), have not gone down in price, still selling for $400 plus.
I bought, sold, traded and played with brass models during the 1990’s and 2000’s, and then focused on house and family for several years.
BLI and others have made remarkable advancements in die-casting and modeling HO steam power. The latest BLI PRR H10s 2-8-0 features tremendously clean metal castings and truly exceptional factory painting. Yet at the same time the brass hybrids coming in, essentially “low cost” brass models rivaling some Sunset imports, are at still another level of detailing, fit, and finish above the more typical BLI and competitors’ offerings.
There is a place on my layout for both. I play with both. Now 47, I’m just buying the steam power that I like without regard for whether it’s Paragon2, or 3, or MTH or Genesis or brass. There are no shelf queens; everything I have gets run.
According to noted collectors like Howard Zane, properly maintained brass models will actually generally outlast the BLI, MTH, etc. offerings…I haven’t run any enough yet to know for sure. I think the very latest BLI offerings might give brass a run for their money, though earlier ones were not perhaps quite as durable.
I can say that some of the finest HO brass models do actually have stainless steel driver tires and valve gear, such that you can run and run and run them without any apparent wear. I have no qualms about buying brass models today but am just more selective now that I have a better idea of what I like and want than years ago.
John
Several of the BLI locomotives ARE brass hybrids:
http://www.broadway-limited.com/brass-hybridseries.aspx
I have several of the streamlined Hudsons and the NYC Mohawks and they are indeed a great value.
“Properly maintained…” there’s the rub! I have maybe 2 dozen brass models from Overland, Sunset, Key, LMB, NJ Custom and W&R. Every one has had to have some kind of repair—often minor, sometimes major—usually with drive-line components.
On the other hand, many of my “mass-produced” Athearn, Atlas, Kato and even BLI locomotives probably belong to the “million-mile club”.
I’m pretty sure most of the models that I have in brass will probably never (in my lifetime, anyway) be produced for the mass market… but 'ya never know!
Baldwin Centipedes? PRR Turbine? Commodore Vanderbilt? The Canadian steam from Rapido!
Never say never [:O]
Ed
When the model railroad bug hit me again I was nearing retirement. I had started a few layout previoulsy, but never a substantial layout.
This time I careflully planed my layout and thanks to a few pc programs was able to map out a very detailed layout in advance, before even starting construction.
I had opted for a few new engines, mainly Spectrum steam engines as they were by far the most detailed and are quite good runners.
As I progressed with the contstruction of my layout I had hoped to eventually have accurate models of both CPR and CNR as well as GN equiipment as those were the rail lines I opted to model.
Reality being that there were few models of Canadian steamers avaiilable to me and I wanted to model the time frame from the 1930’s to the 1950’s.
As luck would have it, I came across a couple of auctions of rather large layouts of mainly Canadian brass engines in HO scale.
A few years ago, not sure If it still holds true but on line Canadian model train auctions seems to go almost unnoticed by American model railroad hobbiests, or there was just very little interest in Canadian Steam at that time. For a while there were very few serious bidders.
End result I was qute fortunate to be able to obtain Canadian steam engines for a fraction of their retail value as posted in various publications that valued brass model railroad equipment.
I have found that even the older open frame motors were qute easy to modify with new rare earth magnets and that conversion to DCC was actually quite easy. As far as running charactreristics, I found it only necessary to regear a few of my brass locomotives in order to obtain engines with quite accepatable running characteristics.
A few years later I have a few dozen ho steam engines in each of my prefereed railroads, the CPR, the CNR and the Great Northern.
All of these engines run fine, have great detail and are excellent copies of their real counterparts. Also, if I wan
This points out one of my gripes about this hobby. With just about any other product we buy, if it doesn’t work perfectly right out of the box, we take it back to the store for replacement or refund. That is how it should be. But for some reason in this hobby we have come to accept that even brand new equipment might have to be tweaked to get it to operate properly. That is true of locos, rolling, stock, turnouts, etc. I think that attitude persists to this day. Since we are so accepting of this, many manufacturers are lax on quality control.
Well, it is a carryover from the days when EVERYTHING was a kit to some degree or another. Even an Athearn Blue Box loco needed the handrails installed, etc.
The problem is that even with NMRA/industry standards, manufacturers cannot anticipate every variation of user conditions - so often they don’t try to…
Try as we might, in my view, this will never be a “plug and play” hobby. Actually I think it would be a sad day if it ever was. Marklin likely is the closest we would ever get to that - but being one brand they can control how everything interacts - and the prices relect that effort.
At the prices it would take to get perfect out of the box performance, I would get out of this hobby fast.
I’m very happy to buy a $100-$200 Bachmann loco and do a little tweeking r
I only have some brass rolling stock, such as a couple of passenger cars and some brass cabooses; no engines - which were always out of my budget.
Even to this day, the only way to have correct cabooses for standard gauge D&RGW is brass. As is true with many railroads, correct passenger cars were only obtainable by brass or very talented scratchbuilding or kitbashing.
One thing I’ve never understood about brass locos and rolling stock is why so much of it was sold unpainted and undecorated. I could never see spending all that money for a loco and then have to do a lot of work painting, decorating, and weathering it before putting it on a layout. Did it have greater collector value unpainted? It’s the reason I never considered buying brass for my layout.
Amazing that you would preface such a condescending remark with the work “Respectfully”.
A few more thoughts about “out of the box perfect”.
First off, perfect on one layout may not run perfect on another…
Unrealistic expectations related to the comment above - Big Boys on 18" radius…etc.
It is interesting that every $200 Bachmann loco I have ever had a problem with was quickly replaced by them.
But every $300 to $500 BLI loco I have had problems with was struggle to get good service from them…
Back to brass - some was/is darn good out ofthe box, some were never good - no different than their die cast/plastic counterparts…
If I have still not made it clear, even “perfect” is subjective. One guy buys a loco, and has no problems - he is pulling 20 car trains on level track around 36" radius curves and #8 turnouts. Another guy buys the loco and calls it a piece of junk - he tries to pull 40 cars up 3% grades around 20" radius curves and thru #4 turnouts…it derails constantly…
But what do I know, I once worked in several hobby shops and have been doing this for 40 years…
Sheldon
In the early days of the hobby, a much greater number of modelers were freelancers, so they might want that loco, but not lettered for the prototype…
And of course it would have cost even more painted - it is/was a hobby of craftsmanship…
Sheldon
You are the one with all the “gripes”, I think the hobby, and its products are great?
The ones that don’t suit my needs, skills or budget, I simply don’t buy…
Sheldon
I don’t have a problem with people disagreeing with me. We’re all entitled to our opinions and all have a right to express them. Where do you get off telling me this isn’t the hobby for me? That’s the second time you have said that to me and I let it slide the first time but if you are going keep repeating it, it’s coming back at you.
I’ve been in this hobby as long as you, longer if you count the few years I was in it as a kid in the early 1960s. I’ve seen a lot of changes in this hobby and much of it has been for the better. If you want to continue to do things the way they were done back in the 1970s, that’s your privilage. I don’t think it is at all unreasonable to expect that manufacturers give us better products today than we got 40 years ago. Progress is about making things simpler
I don’t always agree with Sheldon but I do have to agree with him in respect to the “quality of time” spent fixing up/tweaking a model or locomotive to one’s liking. It doesn’t mean you have to start with a “box of sticks” or an unpainted piece of rolling stock. It’s the creating, nurturing, embellishing aspect that some folks really enjoy and others don’t care at all for.
I don’t do it often but I enjoy working with wood. I don’t have a fancy table saw or drive press to work with. All I have is a good-quality circular saw and hand drill and various home-made jigs to make the cuts and drill the holes that I need. Yea, it may take me a bit of time to create an accurate jig for making a consistent 45-degree cut at the same place on all for four sides of a post. When I do it right though, it’s VERY gratifying.
A project could take me weeks-to-months to accomplish; primarily because my workshop has to be the garage. Could I pay someone to make the cuts or build the project for me? Sure…but it would take the personal enjoyment out of gluing it all together (w/o screws), sanding, and staining & finishing it. I personally find that enjoyable. The only “better quality” I’m concerned about is the quality of the carbide blade, drill bits, or wood I’m using.
Buy what appeals to you; ignore or don’t pa
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I’ve worked in a couple of hobby shops too but really don’t think it makes me anymore an expert than anyone else, nor is a credential. It’s like saying I worked in a Taco Bell and a Wendy’s so I can be an expert on food.
I agree with this. Yes.
Painting of brass models is very subjective in nature: One person’s “beautiful” paint finish might be “way too thick” to someone else, or way too heavily weathered, etc. etc.
Yes, at least for a time there were many purists who wanted brass models to be unpainted, who even ran them that way on layouts so they could show them off and so that all the visitors knew they were high priced brass imports.
BLI is even now offering brass hybrids, painted gold over the brass, with lacquer applied to appeal to those who like them that way.
I would not do that; I tended to buy factory painted whenever possible, and I generally would not buy anything unpainted anymore, as my painters are now deceased or otherwise out of the hobby, but I’m only one person…
If others want to do things the old fashioned way and that
Jecorbett,
There are lots of us out there that still build board by board and do lots of stuff the way they did in the old days… Not because we are frozen in the past but because it gives us the results that we want and there isn’t a “modern” way to get there.
The modelers I know that use the old school techniques are also into laser cut kits, shapeways fabricating and other modern modelling techniques. We choose to combine the best of the old school with the better results achieved by modern techniques and processes. The hobby has made great strides in the last 40 years, but there are some things like grab irons that still are done the same way they were many years ago…
I hear you on some of the things you are saying – doing stuff the difficult way for nostalgia sake is not something I enjoy. For this reason I will often scratch build something rather than deal with older kits where I have to wrestle old technology into a passable but not great model when compared to today’s standards. I avoid many of the older brands of kits for this reason.
As for wood cuts – if the stock is small, the NWSL chopp
Brass – If you want accurate steam engines, cabooses or passenger cars, most of the time you are talking brass. Pre Blackstone, all narrow gauge locos were/are brass (I don’t count MDC). Most of the local layouts that hold ops sessions are all brass rosters. I own 15 brass steam locos – they are some of my best detailed and smoothest running locos. They are also some of my biggest headaches as well. I also have a significant roster of brass cabooses and passenger cars. I have painted a fair number of the locos and other equipment myself as well as re motoring and fixing.
Since I model West Coast short lines (HHRR, YV, SERA) and SP (1935-50ish), there is very little proto specific for those lines outside of brass. Even in brass there wouldn’t be a whole lot if it weren’t for a few makers (Beaver Creek, Westside, Sunset and PFM). I have found a lucky niche in that regard but every brass piece requires the work or the bucks to bring it up to running level. I have lots of $$$ tied up in locos that are unpainted. That is soon to change but not without lots of time and effort on my part.
I started out by buying Spectrum plastic stand – ins. They run great and look good – even if they aren’t road specific. I have since re-lettered and modified a few to get them to be close enough for the road. After I had a good running roster, I branc