A Foggy Day Question

[FatSmitty]

David asked: “Why would some RR’s / locations have a “stop and proceed” rather than just “restricted proceed”?”

It used to be that “stop and proceed” meant that you waited five minutes before proceeding; I do not know when this was changed. On single track, it could be that a train you were following set the signal to red–or a train coming towards you set it to red. If it is one that you are following that set the signal, you could safely proceed, perhaps expecting to see a fusee and hear two torpedoes. If it is one coming towards you, its engineer will have had an approach signal, and would be ready to stop at the signal which had stopped you. Waiting five minutes might give that train enough time for you to see it before proceeding.

In 1971, I rode the Texas Chief from Houston to Fort Worth; we went through some heavy rain which caused problems with the signals (dirty ballast?), causing many to be at stop. We did stop at each one, but then immediately proceeded after stopping. I did not ask the conductor about not waiting, but it may have been that he had verbal permission from the dispatcher because there was no other train on that part of the line at the time.

Stopping and waiting five minutes is for operating in ABS territory. When operating in CTC, a numbered (intermitant signal) with a red aspect is a stop and proceed and movement is made at restricted speed. A number plate signal with a “g” on it and designated in the individual subdivision instructions(timetable) as a grade block displaying a solid red aspect is a proceed at restricted speed. These signals can also display a flashing red aspect which is to proceed at restricted speed as well. An absolute signal(at control points or interlockings) displaying a red aspect is a stop signal and requires authority from a dispacther(control operator) to proceed past the signal and that movement will be made at re

[henry6]

But a “G” sign on an automatic block signal is not stop and proceed but rather to continue at restricted speed prepared to stop short of an obstruction, train ahead or whatever might be there.

As for fog, as I have noted before, “when in doubt, the safest course” should be taken. I believe that the old adage of going no faster than having the ability to stop within sight distance. is the most restrictive action short of stopping. The more mainline, i.e., multi track, signaled, radio communications, no grade crossings would allow for a better speed than a single track, dark and grade crossings every couple hundred feet. But it all boils down, too, to how well the engineer knows the territory, knows the train, and knows himself.

[Deggesty]

But a “G” sign on an automatic block signal is not stop and proceed but rather to continue at restricted speed prepared to stop short of an obstruction, train ahead or whatever might be there.

As for fog, as I have noted before, “when in doubt, the safest course” should be taken. I believe that the old adage of going no faster than having the ability to stop within sight distance. is the most restrictive action short of stopping. The more mainline, i.e., multi track, signaled, radio communications, no grade crossings would allow for a better speed than a single track, dark and grade crossings every couple hundred feet. But it all boils down, too, to how well the engineer knows the territory, knows the train, and knows himself.

It may have changed, of late, but it used to be that the “G” applied to heavy freights only–which would have been difficult to restart after stopping on the upgrade. All other trains were to stop and then proceed at a restricted speed.

[henry6]

No, it didn’t change. It was just how each railroad and situation applied the rule.

[zugmann]

But a “G” sign on an automatic block signal is not stop and proceed but rather to continue at restricted speed prepared to stop short of an obstruction, train ahead or whatever might be there.

As for fog, as I have noted before, “when in doubt, the safest course” should be taken**. I believe that the old adage of going no faster than having the ability to stop within sight distance.** is the most restrictive action short of stopping. The more mainline, i.e., multi track, signaled, radio communications, no grade crossings would allow for a better speed than a single track, dark and grade crossings every couple hundred feet. But it all boils down, too, to how well the engineer knows the territory, knows the train, and knows himself.

(emphasis mine - zug)

Tis the textbook definition of restricted speed. If you’re required to follow restricted speed, that’s what you do. But if you aren’t… go the maximum permissable speed you are comfortable with.

[jeffhergert]

henry6:

But a “G” sign on an automatic block signal is not stop and proceed but rather to continue at restricted speed prepared to stop short of an obstruction, train ahead or whatever might be there.

As for fog, as I have noted before, “when in doubt, the safest course” should be taken. I believe that the old adage of going no faster than having the ability to stop within sight distance. is the most restrictive action short of stopping. The more mainline, i.e., multi track, signaled, radio communications, no grade crossings would allow for a better speed than a single track, dark and grade crossings every couple hundred feet. But it all boils down, too, to how well the engineer knows the territory, knows the train, and knows himself.

It may have changed, of late, but it used to be that the “G” applied to heavy freights only–which would have been difficult to restart after stopping on the upgrade. All other trains were to stop and then proceed at a restricted speed.

Most of the rule books I’ve seen (and I know, I haven’t seen them all) from about 1960 give or take, changed the grade signal with the “G” plate to a restricting signal. Any train or engine could pass without stopping. Some railroads used a “P” for permissive to allow trains to proceed at restricted speed without having to stop first.

The same goes for waiting 5 minutes before proceeding at a stop and proceed. Many of the later books had dropped the requirement. One book from the 1940s had that provision only where authorized. So you could have one place that had to wait 5 mins and others that didn’t on the same railroad company. Go back to some really old books, and