Is it a good sign at a train show when people crowd around the ATM? I always budget how much I am going to spend and carry that amount in cash. I guess it would be good for the train show, but not for people’s personal finances.
Could be for the buyer as well Will. Like find a $500.00 engine there saving for for $250.00!
Cuda Ken
Probably not. Traditionally, hobbyists turned up at shows with a pocket full of cash and a list of what they were looking for. And then there was also a lot of impulse buying, too. When I used to do the train show circuit, I generally carried several hundred bucks with me. A bunch of folk around the ATM machine suggests nowadays folks are showing up without much in the way of funds in hand and thus with little real anticipation of buying much, forcing them to go to the ATM when they do find something they can’t live without. Of course, I suppose this could also be the “modern” way of doing things, but it’s also a good way to loose that item in the meantime, plus it costs you extra.
CNJ831
Train shows and computer shows are about the only place I go where some vendors actually charge an extra fee to use your credit card. What most customers don’t realize is that every vendor, every store, every e-tailer and even every fast-food places has to pay a fee when you use a credit card. Most of them just absorb it into the cost of doing business, so you don’t pay any more for using your card, but show vendors will sometimes charge for using the card to increase their profit margin a bit. Of course, some of these vendors are operating on the margins of the economy anyway, and if they can operate a cash-only business, it’s easier to hide the profits from the tax man.
So, when you see that line at the ATM, it probably means that a bunch of customers didn’t realize that they can save more money by paying cash. I would assume that next time, they’ll bring cash rather than paying an ATM fee.
Incidentally, I always try to pay cash at my LHS. I’m quite happy to let him avoid paying those fees. It’s a way to support your LHS without costing you anything.
Hard to lose cash if you keep it in the bank. I normally only take $50.00 max in case I lose my wallet, or it gets picked.
I agree to a point…
Speaking from experience some times I found some good buys and didn’t have enough cash for those unexpected deals or rare finds.
One of the better deals was 4 Bev/Bell/Athearn cars for $12.00…Normally I would pass this deal up but,looking over the road names I found 3 names I was looking for and 1 I never knew existed.
I’m still kicking myself in the rump for passing up a Alco Models SW1 for $60.00…I had my mind set on buying N Scale only that day…[8] I should have been flexable.
That’s one mistake I won’t repeat.
Who knows?
I had one co-worker (short-term, thank goodness) who never seemed to carry more than $5 on him. On job assignments, we always had to go to a bank for him to withdraw some money before going to a restaurant for lunch and dinner. He was a “pain.” (I have suspicions he was silently asking for advances from me which would never be payed back.)
A lot of people are uncomfortable carrying large/significant sums because they fear loss, and now with all the ATMs (as well as debit and credit cards), one doesn’t often need to carry much money.
I believe drawing money out of one’s bank account via ATM or debit card is a lot “healthier” than charging on a credit card.
Mark
My understanding based on various readings is that credit card companies require the vendors to not charge its credit card customers any more than its cash customers. I understand why some vendors want to charge credit card customers more, but they are violating contracts with the credit card companies. If you want, send a complaint to the credit card company. If you have documentation, the credit card company may give you a refund.
Mark
Also, I doubt whether tax-cheating vendors forward any sales tax charges onto the state.
Mark
Here in Ohio you need 2 things to be a vendor…A vendor’s license and a Tax ID number.Get caught not charging tax or not reporting sales and you could be facing a stiff fine and suspension of your vendor’s license…
It could be both ways. Higher prices, or not having enough money on them.
I hardly ever have cash on me. Its all debit card for me. Now if I go to a train show, I just carry $50 or so on me. Half the time I see something I want and its more $$$$$. So I pass.
But…A few times just having a debit card has bitten me. Mainly at restaurants [:-^].
I tend to go to trainshows with about $75 in my pocket----BUT—if something shows up and I need it and it is over that amount of $$$$ in me pocket then out comes the debit card tied to my RR bank account.
Perhaps true. It’s been a while since I ran into this, but at the same time, I don’t buy a lot of big-ticket items at train shows. Still, I have to sympathize with the dealers more than the bank. Their profit margins really aren’t that large, and if I find a good deal, it means their profit is not as large as someone else’s. So, if possible, I’ll reward the low-priced dealer by purchasing with cash.
The other option a dealer has is simply to not accept credit cards. It may cost him a few sales, but if he can keep his prices lower as a result, it’s you who benefits from this. That line at the ATM may be from people who are buying from cash-only dealers.
Also, we need to remember that train show sales are “negotiations.” If a dealer takes credit cards, you may ask him to give you a “cash price” which might save you both a few dollars.
The recent trend in my neighborhood is for gas stations (as the major example) to advertize a “cash or (specific brand) card” price, and not advertize a higher price for other cards and debit cards. This almost seems to suggest a deliberate skirt of something simillar to what you are saying.
Anyone else remember back in the seventies and eighties whan we were told that ATMs and debit/credit cards would allow banks to reduce the costs of their business, so they could pass the savings on to us?
In Illinois, I believe the state department of revenue routinely send officials to shows, swap meets, and bourses to see that sales taxes are collected.
What most customers and apparently some vendors don’t know (or hope they can get away with) is that it is explicitly forbidden in their merchant agreements with the credit card companies (and paypal too) to charge even a penny extra over the “cash” price. All someone would have to do is turn them in to the credit card company (or paypal) and they would lose their merchant account.
— On Thu, 3/11/10, webform@paypal.com webform@paypal.com wrote:
From: webform@paypal.com webform@paypal.com
Subject: Re: ReportFraud/ProhibitedUse (Routing Code: C840-L001-T14065-S111-W000000) (KMM161392178I96L0KM) :ppk1
Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:50 PMDear xxxxx:
Thank you for contacting PayPal Merchant Solutions regarding the fees
that sellers are adding for PayPal transactions.When someone opens a PayPal account, they are required to accept the
PayPal User Agreement. In doing so, they agree not to impose a
surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. A
handling fee may be charged in connection with the sale of goods or
services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge
and is not higher than the handling fee charged for non-PayPal
transactions
Do you get a receipt for every item you buy at a train show? Does every item get rung up on an electronic cash register, or scanned or whatever? If not, then this purchase hasn’t been recorded, and it’s pretty hard to trace. If the tax law requires receipts for all purchases, then the taxman might nail a dealer for not providing one, but unless he’s going to stand there looking suspicious all day, he will not have any justification for claiming that the vendor didn’t pay the sales tax on all his proceeds.
I’m not condoning the practice, or even saying that it happens, but in a cash economy it can often be difficult to enforce tax laws. My guess would be that some number of the vendors at any large show are under-reporting their receipts, and therefore underpaying their taxes.
One bad thing…The customer you are serving is he/she with the Department of Taxation? That you never know till its to late and he/she has you red handed…
I know at the train shows I’ve gone to 99.9% of the time I paid taxes.That .1% was private dealers selling cars and locomotives from their private collection and not vendors.You see selling items from your private collection doesn’t come under show vendor laws or taxation since its a casual sale.
Yes, you paid taxes. And, so did I. But, the question is, did the vendor pay the taxes he collected to the state, or did he take the risk that I was a “revenuer” and pocket the extra 5%?
A few years back, I was at a show where a vendor mentioned while adding the tax to my bill that the inspectors were in attendance. Maybe they recognize the individuals, or maybe they stand out like a sore thumb (clean-shaven, business suits, recently-showered, polite maybe?) at train shows. Anyway, their cover was blown.
The fact that they do send inspectors to these shows indicates that they feel they need to watch out for vendors who aren’t paying the taxes.
Another thing, just about all of the train shows I have been to the vendors have included the sales tax with the price of the item. I was at a show the other day and one of the vendors I went to had the price a little higher than the other vendors. He explained that the sales tax was already added on so customers could get an idea of what exactly it costs. I wonder if he was losing sales because people didn’t have enough to cover the purchase total after taxes.