I felt neither one of those things, Andre. I don’t have envy or anger over any of Dave’s accomplishments, modeling skills, vernacular, way of life, etc. Whatever he’s accomplished in his life, great for him, hope he gets all the rewards he deserves. What did bother me (not anger though) was the way he tends to talk down to people, like the way jktrains and driline do all the time. Appartently he did some looking back at some of his posts, maybe he was contacted via PM, or maybe he’s a new man, I don’t know. Whatever the reason, Dave realized he was being condescending in his posts and now wants to fix it. Awesome!
Now that’s interesting, because I’ll read anything Dave posts and I don’t see any condescension on Dave’s part at all. As for the times Dave may have gotten a bit “testy”, my recollection of the surrounding events was that I was rather taken by the restraint he displayed.
Dave, it takes a real man to stand up and say something like that. I commend you.
If people ask for your opinion, here are some words to remember before replying:
Tact
Judgment
Discretion
Diplomacy
Maturity
Keep these skills in mind when analyzing someone else’s work. You can get your point across without saying, “man, that paint looks like you applied it will a roller brush.”
It’s hard to be tactful with a response like the one I mention above if that’s your true feeling. If that’s the case, maybe it’s better to sit on your hands and move on to the next post. After all, even if you said, “Nice try. You might want to practice a little more before working on your finished model” and had the best intentions in the world, someone would easily misconstrue your written words as being rude.
Remember, you can’t convey sarcasm or body language via written word… what might come across face-to-face positive input could be misconstrued in words because of the lack of body language and tone of voice. Lacking those two key communication attributes is probably what starts half of the flame wars on forum. Best intentions misunderstood.
So, before you post, re-read your comment and try to look at it from another member’s point of view. Is it coming across the right way, or can it easily be taken the wrong way. If it can be taken the wrong way, it’s probably best to edit it or add clarification.
I don’t normally read the WPF threads and didn’t read jktrains’ variant until just a few minutes ago. The most basic reason I don’t is that I have no photos to contribute myself for reasons too lengthy to go into here other than to comment it involves real estate, moving and things being packed away for the foreseeable future. I don’t comment on other people’s pictures unless they impress me as at least approaching the exceptionally good.
As for Dave’s comments in the Weekend Photo Forum thread, OK, now I understand why he apologized although I am still of the opinion that the “necessity” to apologize was marginal. I do understand how stress can make one testy as I (and my siblings) are faced with the fact that we need to take over my 89 year old mother’s finances while at the same time knowing she’s not at the point where a court would judge her incompetent. At least we convinced her to quit driving, so the streets of Southern California are just a tad safer than they were. Unfortunately, that was the easy part and it took a couple of years to do the convincing. I won’t bore you with the real underlying issue.
I’m been wondering if I need to apologize for anything myself. Usually I will delete a post I make if, on reflection, it strikes me as inappropriate or unduly harsh. In the last few weeks, I notice that I’ve started to post things several times and then thought better of it before hitting the “post” button. Maybe that’s a clue that things can get a bit heated here.
I’ll say this, at the risk of throwing gasoline on a fire…
There are many things that JK and Driline have said that I do agree with. And I really do think both of these guys, who are excellent modelers in my opinion, are interested in helping people achieve more. I’m guessing they would have moved on long ago if that were not the case. They have much to add to these forums.
I won’t comment on their choice of words or their style… However, I crossed my own line when I posted about idiots and whiners. I alone am responsible for my choice of words, and I feel I was out of line.
I make no secret about my status as an officer in the United States Air Force. As such, I don’t ever want my conduct to reflect poorly on the USAF (or myself, personally). An officer is by institution a gentleman (or lady), and that is something I take to heart. We all get stressed and annoyed at times; the test of a gentlemen is in how he keeps his composure.
Having switched to n-scale a little more than a year ago, I have appreciated the helpful posts from you here. I also appreciate this thread, and your comments, and hope it serves to alert some others to some practices that of late made me consider leaving the forum, in spite of the help it has been. (Not because of anything said to me, but because of unkind things said to others.)
And let me also add, its good to see your smiling face again!
IMHO, you are nothing but an Officer and a Gentleman. [bow]
I have nothing but the utmost respect for you as a modeller and your contributions to this Forum. You are definitly an inspiration to myself and I would think, many others that enjoy these Forums. I do not think that you have anything to appologize for, even if you did get your knickers in a little bit of a knot. ONE TIME.
By the way, I for another am glad to see your smiling face back in your Avatar. You are definitly NOT the bumbler that Cliff represents.
Keep up the good work and keep posting those Pics. of your future endeavours.
I thank you for your service as well! I’ve spent a lot of time with the Army as a combat weather team leader… Most recently with the 2d Armored Cavalry in Iraq. But I’ve also worked JRTC (Fort Polk), EUSA HQ and 17 AVN BDE in Korea, and 1st AD in Bosnia. In fact, I actually have more Army medals than Air Force ones…
I deeply respect the Army’s operational focus and sense of history and tradition. The USAF is only recently beginning to really appreciate its own history and is trying to instill a sense of Airmanship in all of its personel in the way that every Soldier knows he or she is a Soldier first.
I won’t comment on their choice of words or their style… However, I crossed my own line when I posted about idiots and whiners. I alone am responsible for my choice of words, and I feel I was out of line
Dave, now your apology makes sense. When one violates one’s own standards, it’s time to back off and take stock. I’m not sure that it was necessary to make a generalized apology as you applogized in the offending thread and anyone who failed to read that thread was probably left shaking his head wondering what was going on.
Now, can we get back to the real business of this forum and that is:
Discussing when the “Golden Age” was.
Discussing the impending doom of the hobby.
Bemoaning the prevalence of R-T-R and the lack of real craftsmanship
Wailing and gnashing teeth because the hobby is too expensive.
Trashing or defending Kalmbach for its sins or lack of same.
[swg]
May the Air Force be with you.
Andre - USAF 1965 to 1969, back when men were men and some aircraft were still powered with reciprocating engines. IOW, the Golden Age
I appreciate it Andre… But I had a few other replies sprinkled throughout the past 2 months or so that were unnecessarily mean or caustic as well.
So a general “es tut mir Leid” was probably warranted. Even if not, I think it’s imprtant for folks to know I don’t think any more highly of myself than anyone else even if my posts can sometimes sound that way. I put my cars on the track one truck at a time like everyone else![;)]
In my book, you’re still the great modeler that I have great respect for. Looking at your work gives me ideas that I can use on my own layout. Keep up the good work.
And as a US Army veteran I have great respect for your service to our country. We’re all entitled to be a jerk once in a while, not because we can but because we’re human, and maybe that says it best.
Back in the Old Country it would be pronounced something like “Full-muh,” although I’ve had Germans correct me on that. Here in the states we just say it “Vole-muhr.”
For a name with only 7 letters that’s reasonably pheonetic, you’d be surprised at how easily it gets butchered both verbally and in writing!
Thanks! You keep it up. You’re doing what you love, and you don’t fret over what other people say about it. I’m finally beginning to understand your following. It’s your personality. You walk right up to your detractors without fear or care of what they’ll say. It is a hobby, and you keep that in perspective. Sometimes I don’t, but you do.
Guys may go after you because you seem like easy pickins, since you post a lot, run your own small forum, and have some very real limitations that many of us are fortunate not to be saddled with. But you’re having fun and you’re making an effort to grow and improve as a modeler. Attitude is as much a part of this as the modeling itself, if not moreso. So I draw the line at attacking individuals like yourself when, in fact, you’re representing what this hobby is really all about.
So Jeff, the stalwart of these forums (along with curiously absent Spacemouse Chip), this Bud’s for you, for “keeping it real.” It’s not about what you could do if you had a million dollars; it’s about what you try to do with what you have.
[#ditto] Do I just not read the threads where all this controversy is? I see the gripes and appologies but never know where they are coming from. Is this stuff happening in the Elliott’s Diner type threads?
So a general “es tut mir Leid” was probably warranted. Even if not, I think it’s imprtant for folks to know I don’t think any more highly of myself than anyone else even if my posts can sometimes sound that way. I put my cars on the track one truck at a time like everyone else!
You do? Looks like it’s time for Andre’s Traveling Put Your Cars On The Track In One Fell Swoop Traveling Medicine Show, 'Chuteless Sky Diving School And Memorial Association.
No… The main area has been the weathering and photo forum/fun threads. But I took a cheap shot or two at a few folks in other threads over the past few months (Budliner comes to mind)… Budliner, if you’re out there, Bro… Sorry!
Dave, I enjoy your posts and have never found them offensive. I’m originally from Cleveland, OH so we have developed a very thick skin as far as criticism and being flamed is concerned. Although I’m not into prototype modeling, I am also a perfectionist in other aspects of modeling. My thoughts about model railroading is to do whatever floats your boat, be it Thomas, Lionel, or strict, 99.99% prototypically correct On3, but above all, HAVE FUN.