South of Springfield the old Illinois Terminal RR had tracks that paralleled the GM&O/UP tracks for most of way through, Chatham, Auburn, Carlinville to the St Louis area. I think this track was abandoned in the 1960s-70s. The only reason I know is because I have some old rail maps since the former ITC tracks were abandoned before my time. I was thinking maybe most of the old ITC that parallels UP could be rebuilt for Amtrak passenger trains and HSR since freight traffic on UP’s line is supposed to pick up in the next several years. Of course I don’t expect it to happen since the ITC’s abandoned ROW has been reclaimed by private owners and built over in the last several decades, though upgrading UP’s track by building overpasses/underpasses and adding an additional track will generate oppositions in some locales anyway.
I wouldn’t hold your breath for this line to ever get rebuilt, Lyon. The ITC did roughly follow the GMO south to Carlinville, thereafter it cut over and sort of followed the CNW south through Virden, Gillespie and Benld, at which point it diverted south of Benld from the CNW then picked up along the Wabash south from Staunton through Decamp to Worden, where it then cut over on it’s own through Hamel, Edwardsville and then down into the valley to Pontoon Beach, Granite City and St. Louis. The route was not a greatly engineered line- the grades were non-compensated and involved multiple at grade crossings of other rail lines in the area- the worst part though is the line had multiple locations with street running segments (Gillespie, Staunton, etc.). The line has been largely as far as the ROW goes- mostly obliterated after abandonment- the line from Edwardsville south to Granite City is now a paved bike trail for Madison County (I spent way too much time messing around on my bike on this trail as a kid, and playing in the abandoned Bells substation along the trail by my house.) In addition to the old grade being used as a trail- the line north of Gillespie has a short segment still in use as the access track to the currently closed Monterrey Mine (now NS trackage). I think it’s better to hitch the horse to re-double tracking the GMO main line through Alton instead of trying to resurrect this line.
Hey Nordique72!
Being an unrepentant traction phreaque, a few years ago I was pokin’ around the I.T. abandoned right of way north of Carlinville. At that time there still was a brick substation building still standing, but I forget what small Illinois town it was near. Did you ever see this building?
Not exactly the type of tracks suited for 110mph or higher passenger trains that Amtrak wants to run from Chicago to St Louis. No doubt there’s going to be additions and changes to UP’s former GM&O tracks if HSR gets beyond the design-study stage.
As usual, Nordique72 nailed it–especially with the attributes of the line. The line was before my time too. But, my Dad has shown me where it went on countless occassions, and I just marvel at the thought of those 120-car grain trains negotiating those city streets and sharp curves.
As an aside though, there is another stretch of the IT still in existence. North of Carlinville, some farmer purchased aboute 1.2 miles of the line, and he has a small engine that he runs on the line. Kind of different, but for IT lovers, it brings a smile to their face.
I always wondered why the IT was not purchased by the CNW rather than the N&W.
Hi Bob,
That abandoned substation north of Carlinville was at Nilwood, IL on the north side of town. In the early 90s there still were quite a few ex-substations still around along the old IT including Cornstalk (north of Edwardsville), Loveless (north of Gillespie, and as of late 2008 still standing), Carlinville (in town, moved across the road and in the county road shop), Nilwood, and Williamsburg. On the line to Decatur the depot/substation at Buffalo was still around as well. Cornstalk, and Williamsburg are gone now, I haven’ t been through Nilwood since 2004, but it was still up then when I saw it from Amtrak that year, I’m not sure if the one in Carlinville is still around or not. Here are a couple of the shots I took of the substations Cornstalk and Loveless- when I get home I can dig out the picture of the one at Carlinville I took in 1991 as well…
Perhaps it was cheaper for them to buy the remaining shares since they already held the shares owned by Wabash and the Nickle Plate?
Well, if’n we was dumb, we wasn’t quite that dumb.
When the IT failed as a passenger interurban it had developed significant freight markets. Any railroad that bought the failed IT would get those freight markets for a cheap price. Couldn’t have that. So 11 railroads or so went together and bought the IT as a group. That kept it “neutral” and kept any one railroad from winning the “prize”.
It then became a royal pain in the butt. Abandoning its own track and operating via trackage rights over other railroads, it undercut prices and diverted “our” freight. This wasn’t a viable long term strategy on its part, but low balling prices kept the IT running for a while. Eventually, it became a basket case again. What to do?
Sell it to the C&NW? Not on your tintype. I’ll use Decatur, IL as an example.
Decatur is a major grain processing center located smack dab in the middle of some of the best farm land in the world. It’s also been a major manufacturing center with Caterpillar continuing to have a major presence in the community.
http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=8703&x=7&id=1389429
Firestone used to be there too, but they aparently built some bad tires that killed some folks and that “One Little Thing” closed the plant. (I had an Explorer with Firestone tires from Decatur. I took it to the Ford dealer just
[quote user=“greyhounds”]
Well, if’n we was dumb, we wasn’t quite that dumb.
When the IT failed as a passenger interurban it had developed significant freight markets. Any railroad that bought the failed IT would get those freight markets for a cheap price. Couldn’t have that. So 11 railroads or so went together and bought the IT as a group. That kept it “neutral” and kept any one railroad from winning the “prize”.
It then became a royal pain in the butt. Abandoning its own track and operating via trackage rights over other railroads, it undercut prices and diverted “our” freight. This wasn’t a viable long term strategy on its part, but low balling prices kept the IT running for a while. Eventually, it became a basket case again. What to do?
Sell it to the C&NW? Not on your tintype. I’ll use Decatur, IL as an example.
Decatur is a major grain processing center located smack dab in the middle of some of the best farm land in the world. It’s also been a major manufacturing center with Caterpillar continuing to have a major presence in the community.
http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=8703&x=7&id=1389429
Firestone used to be there too, but they aparently built some bad tires that killed some folks and that “One Little Thing” closed the plant. (I had an Explorer with Firestone tires from Decatur. I t
Sorry for the digression, but my four-year old daughter is insisting that she be able to type this (she will probably spell better than me):
The Illinois Terminal trains looked better than the Norfolk and Western trains.
anna
Gabe,
You’re right about the big freight trains running on the city streets in Staunton and Gillespie- the old IT “passenger main” through those towns up to Springfield was used for freight service until 1972, up until that time the IT was trying to run those heavy on the old interurban infrastructure. After a series of bad derailments the IT began securing trackage rights on parallel lines- the picked up rights on the CNW from Leclaire to Monterrey Mine, the ICG main line from Mont to Springfield, and the ex-GMO IC main from Wood River to Springfield. Those were the rights south of Springfield- north of there it was a whole different setup.There was a great pair of articles in Trains magazine in 1980/81 about the IT and all it’s trackage rights they ran. By the end the only original IT lines in use were “terminal” lines in the St. Louis area (the T&E Belt Line, and the Alton line), Springfield (the old “Belt Line” around the east side), Decatur and Peoria. I wished as a kid that I could have seen the lime green and yellow units of the IT- but I was a little to young for that.
Yes, Nilwood, Ill. was the place I had in mind. Thank you.
The first time I saw that stretch of Illinois Terminal right-of-way was in September 1968. I was riding the G.M.& O. Limited at the time, enroute from Chicago to Saint Louis. In the intervening 35-years (the last time I was through there was maybe 2003), that former interurban route looks more-and-more forlorn. Borrowing an idea from the late novelist Margaret Mitchell, “It was a time and place of beauty, now Gone With The Wind.”
Gabe,
Look for the video Lincolnland Rails. There’s a couple scenes of a grain train working south out of Springfield. One scene shows the train going down the middle of the street in I believe Virden. Another scene shows the train rounding a sharp curve at a pretty good speed. And to top it off, the train is being pulled by Alcos. Being born around the same time as you, I too missed out on the IT. I do however remember seeing IT diesels on N&W after the merger.
In a sense, the Illois Terminal WAS acquired by C&NW (together with bunch other roads), and then later sold to N&W. Here’s what happened.
By the 1950’s, IT was obviously nearing its end as an independent passegner/freight operation. But its freight operations, particular on the south end of the road, were attractive to the main line railroads in the area. Trouble is, given the regulatory climate of the time, an attempt by any one of these roads to acquire IT would have been opposed by all of the others, because of their concern about losing IT’s interchange traffic to the acquiring road. That, in turn, would have led to lengthy regulatory proceedings, the outcome of which would have been pretty uncertain, given ICC’s merger philosophy at the time.
The solution to this conundrum was that a consortium of 11 main line railroads, one of which was C&NW, bought the IT in 1956 (the deal was actually made in 1955, but the regulatory approvals took time). The roads involved in this deal were B&O, C&EI, CB&Q, C&NW, CRI&P, GM&O, IC (through an affiliate), NYC, NKP, STLSF and WAB. It’s likely that the making of this deal in 1955 was the immediate cause of the termination of IT’s main lin
Were the Alco’s RS-1s? To my knowledge, the only Alco’s on the IT’s roster were RS-1s, and they only had three or four of them. That would be interesting to see; thanks for the recommendation.
What I would give to be able to go to the south side of Springfield for a day in 1970 . . .
Gabe
P.S. I remember seeing some IT power on the NS, but boy do I remember seeing lots of IT cars. 30 years after its demise, and I still see a good number of them.
An curious footnote on reporting marks is that railroads, for internal reasons, will sometimes put the reporting marks of long gone predecessor roads on new rolling stock. For example, you can see a good number of relatively new cars running around (I can’t immediately recall of they are coal cars or covered hoppers, but I think it’s the latter) with “CMO” reporting marks. These are marks of the long gone Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha (“Omaha Road”), a C&NW affiliate which went out of existence in 1973. The cars are actually UP cars.
IIRC, NS uses the PRR reporting mark on some of their rolling stock. I’ve also seen pics of rolling stock with the NYC reporting mark too. My google search says that the NYC reporting mark is used by CSX, and NS also owns the CR reporting mark.
Hey Gabe,
Don’t worry about “doubting” me. This is a discussion and I can be wrong.
And in this case I aparently was.
Sending 120 car loaded grain trains over a line that was bult to handle streetcars on steroids seems to be less than a good idea.
Gabe,
Yes the power on the grain train was 2 RS1’s. And they were smoking it up. I think the IT had some other Alco model’s, S1’s perhaps?? Not really sure. As recommended by another poster, the IT articles from Trains magazine in the early 80’s by Mike Schaefer are very informative. Of course the IT book by Dale Jenkins is basically the IT bible.
There are still quite a few IT grain hoppers floating around on NS grain trains in and around the Decatur area. There’s a flat car I’ve seen quite a few times that looks like its been parked in a garage somewhere since the 70’s. It’s IT paint is in perfect condition.
I am sorry, I was not considering switch engines as IT Alco power–and I forgot that one of the unique things about the IT is that it commonly ran switch engines with road switchers . . .
Gabe