The old ITC alternate-day trains 200 and 201 still handled what little remained of “through traffic” but these trains started running via the current Decatur - Bement - Gibson City - East Peoria routing (requiring a runaround manuever at Gibson City in each direction) in March-May 1982 before being discontinued. Shortly after the operati
Pondering further your analogy of the PRR “reaching” Kansas City via it’s control over the Wabash, You might be supporting my earlier position, more than detracting from it.
Consider where Wabash Presidents Norman Pitcairn, Herman Pevler, and Henry Large came from, do you think for a moment that there was no intent to influence there?
Further, look at the conditions surrounding the Pennsy’s acquisition of wabash control. Culminating the nearly decade long reorganization proceedings that the Wabash underwent during the 1930’s and early 1940’s, the PRR’s ultimately proposed solution was for it to purchase all or at least the majority of Wabash’s capital stock. Immediate and heated objections from the NYC, Pittsburgh & Lake Erie, and others followed, protesting that “such a union would create a PRR of such an overwhelming size and power as to overshadow all other railroad systems in the eastern territory”… After much deliberation, the ICC officially commented on August 7, 1941 that–" The Lines of the Wabash are naturally complimentary to those of the Pennsylvania and together form a direct route from Kansas City to the Eastern Seaboard , avoiding the congested terminal areas of St Louis and Chicago. Such a route under a coordinated arrangement is of particular importance at the present time. The control sought also will be desirable from the standpoint of an amalgamation of weak to strong roads"–(1)
In September 1941 the final roadblock to the PRR’s outright control was overcome, when Judge Davis endorsed what the ICC had a
[quote user=“Convicted One”]
Pondering further your analogy of the PRR “reaching” Kansas City via it’s control over the Wabash, You might be supporting my earlier position, more than detracting from it.
Consider where Wabash Presidents Norman Pitcairn, Herman Pevler, and Henry Large came from, do you think for a moment that there was no intent to influence there?
Further, look at the conditions surrounding the Pennsy’s acquisition of wabash control. Culminating the nearly decade long reorganization proceedings that the Wabash underwent during the 1930’s and early 1940’s, the PRR’s ultimately proposed solution was for it to purchase all or at least the majority of Wabash’s capital stock. Immediate and heated objections from the NYC, Pittsburgh & Lake Erie, and others followed, protesting that “such a union would create a PRR of such an overwhelming size and power as to overshadow all other railroad systems in the eastern territory”… After much deliberation, the ICC officially commented on August 7, 1941 that–" The Lines of the Wabash are naturally complimentary to those of the Pennsylvania and together form a direct route from Kansas City to the Eastern Seaboard , avoiding the congested terminal areas of St Louis and Chicago. Such a route under a coordinated arrangement is of particular importance at the present time. The control sought also will be desirable from the standpoint of an amalgamation of weak to strong roads"–(1)
In September 1941 the final roadblock to the PRR’s outright control was overcome, when Judge Davis
Has there been any talk of bringing Amtrak Service back to Peoria ?
Actually the UP is upgrading the line from Nelson to Peoria and an interchange with the BNSF (former Santa Fe) at Edelstein (near the famous Edelstein Hill) has been installed. There is some talk of double tracking the line. The BNSF itself makes rather limited use of its line to Peoria compared to a few years ago.
Dave Nelson
It might have been interesting (from a Peoria railroading perspective) if Jay Gould had maintained control of the TP&W as well, instead of losing it to reorganization maneuvers.
People often claim that his purchase of the narrow guage Havana, Rantoul, and Eastern made no sense. But looking at the map (and speculating) it sure could have been upgraded to standard guage and extended to Peoria for anyone determined to enter the Peoria market. Which is just the style of expansion he seemed to prefer. (or spite, when suspecting that as a motive among his competitors)
In several episodes of Fibber McGee & Molly, a train whistle was heard in the background, causing McGee to declare suddenly “Sounds like the Express is on time!” Supposedly, the main line ran near 79 Wistful Vista Lane in Peoria.
Have no idea where it was going.
Don’t expect the UP to upgrade the line below Edelstein. Although an upgraded line to the north would improve service to Peoria, I doubt that that is in the plan–as of now, the normal position of the connection switch is toward BNSF, not toward Peoria.
It must have been a Rock Island train to or from Chicago. At the time of that radio program no other road ran a passenger train (ITC excepted) into Peoria that could be called an “express” by any stretch of the imagination. For a city its size when it came to passenger service “neglected” would be the right adjective to describe Peoria.
Mark
Amtrak is supposed to release a feasibility study by the end of the year as to whether Chicago - Peoria service is feasible, and also what it would cost. After that, public support is crucial to getting it.
UP plans to double track the Peoria Sub north of Edelstein and install CTC to accommodate reportedly several daily stack and automotive trains in each direction. The portion of the Peoria Sub from the top of Pioneer Hill (Track 2 only on double track portion) to South Pekin was upgraded with heavy cwr in 2002. South Pekin Siding was upgraded with heavier cwr the same year. Thousands of crossties (55,000 IIRC) were replaced that year between South Pekin and Barr for 40mph speeds.
BNSF’s Peoria Sub has been allowed to deteriorate. Many crossties are in poor condition and the situation has created a wide gauge problem on portions of the line. Track speeds are mostly 10mph with some 5mph sections. It’s kind of sad given the variety of traffic (several coal trains per week, CN haulage grain trains, tri-weekly TP&W Galesburg Job, etc.). The slow speeds keep the track from looking bad. A rehab may occur in the near future.
Amtrak is supposed to release a feasibility study by the end of the year as to whether Chicago - Peoria service is feasible, and also what it would cost. After that, public support is crucial to getting it.
The feasibility study to be released by Amtrak before the end of 2007 is for Chicago to Quad Cities service. Illinois DOT may have requested a study for service to Peoria, that study is not part of the study to be completed in 2007.
Where does TP&W fit in this picture, now, and in the past?
Somewhere I thought I read that Fibber McGee & Molly was associated with the M&StL and its Kickapoo Hill at Peroia.
I don’t expect to see a revival of the Prairie Marksman route.
The Midwest High Speed Rail Association’s map (http://www.midwesthsr.org/il_fastTrack.htm) shows what appears to be the former Rock Island route to both Peoria and the Quad Cities. Peoria - St. Louis is also shown, probably via Union Pacific-IMRR to existing route at Springfield.
The end of 2007 date is what I’ve heard, but the source could be wrong.
[quote user=“nanaimo73”]
nanaimo73 wrote the following post 12 years ago: Convicted One wrote: I was reading an excellent book on the expansion and contraction of the PRR and related entities last night, and the author was talking about how the PRR (at first) envisioned the line to Peoria as a Chicago bypass, until other priorities rose to the forefront. Heineman tried to build a Chicago bypass by adding the TP&W to his M&StL. PRR found out and got TP&W first, forcing Heineman over to the C&NW, and saving it from being swallowed by the CMSP&P And, just working from (somewhat cloudy) memory, I don’t believe that the NS line is intact all the way east from Peoria, any longer…perhaps they still get there, but not via the one time east bound main. It only goes to Gibson City, and then trackage rights on CN(IC) are used to Chicago. I had thought that B&O had at one time had a (NW-SE running) line across Illinois that was abandoned too…wasn’t sure if that was a Peoria route as well. B&O did have the Alton (1929-1943), which reached Peoria from the south on a line which is gone now. B&O proper connected with that line in Springfield. I would guess B&O used IT, or perhaps C&IM, to reach Peoria after 1943. The old line from Pekin thru Tremont- who’s line was that? That was the NYC (P&E) line, which had trackage rights north from Pekin. and, There is another line that ran due south out of Pekin, toward Springfield…is that the IC line you mention? C&NW, C&IM and Alton/GM&O connected Peoria and Springfield. IC’s (now CN’s) line went through Decatur to Evansville, and for awhile, all the way to Nashville. There is also a line that runs from Morton thru Mackinaw…is that line still active? Both PRR and IT went between Morton and Mackinaw, both of which are gone. There is, or was, a line from Morton to the NS/NKP at Crandall, which TP&W has/had, that was Alton/GM&O thanks in advance And then there w
Wonder whatever happened to old Gabe?
[quote user**=“Convicted One”**]
gabe
I stand with others in my amazement that more of an effort has not been used to rerout traffic through Peoria–or the Kankakee belt for that matter. Gabe
Wonder whatever happened to old Gabe?
[/quote]
I’d add another couple of names to that question:
I miss nanaimo73, wanswheel, zardoz, to start!
[quote user=“Convicted One”]
nanaimo73
nanaimo73 wrote the following post 12 years ago: Convicted One wrote: I was reading an excellent book on the expansion and contraction of the PRR and related entities last night, and the author was talking about how the PRR (at first) envisioned the line to Peoria as a Chicago bypass, until other priorities rose to the forefront. Heineman tried to build a Chicago bypass by adding the TP&W to his M&StL. PRR found out and got TP&W first, forcing Heineman over to the C&NW, and saving it from being swallowed by the CMSP&P And, just working from (somewhat cloudy) memory, I don’t believe that the NS line is intact all the way east from Peoria, any longer…perhaps they still get there, but not via the one time east bound main. It only goes to Gibson City, and then trackage rights on CN(IC) are used to Chicago. I had thought that B&O had at one time had a (NW-SE running) line across Illinois that was abandoned too…wasn’t sure if that was a Peoria route as well. B&O did have the Alton (1929-1943), which reached Peoria from the south on a line which is gone now. B&O proper connected with that line in Springfield. I would guess B&O used IT, or perhaps C&IM, to reach Peoria after 1943. The old line from Pekin thru Tremont- who’s line was that? That was the NYC (P&E) line, which had trackage rights north from Pekin. and, There is another line that ran due south out of Pekin, toward Springfield…is that the IC line you mention? C&NW, C&IM and Alton/GM&O connected Peoria and Springfield. IC’s (now CN’s) line went through Decatur to Evansville, and for awhile, all the way to Nashville. There is also a line that runs from Morton thru Mackinaw…is that line still active? Both PRR and IT went between Morton and Mackinaw, both of which are gone. There
Regarding Peoria passenger service, don’t forget the ?Zipper" story in the October 2017 issue of Trains.