Advanced sections vs. Second sections

Trains Magazine General Discussion
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Highball,

Could someone please explain the difference between these two. The advanced section of a train is seemingly self explanatory. It departs “before” the main section. However, I have a feeling that it’s not as simple as that. This also goes for the second section freight (which, to me, would depart “after” the main freight.) What would be the criteria for even running adved section and 2nd section freights? My thoughts were express or time critical shipments for advanced sections (auto parts, ect,). Second section freights would consist of perhaps lading which would overwhelm the main train. You wouldn’t try to squeeze everything into one 200 car freight. So…run a second train, right? I don’t know, just my own guess.

Thanks guys,

MLG481/2"

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Advance section is a fancy way of saying the first section…and nothing but volume determined the need for a second section…time sensitive or other wise makes no difference.

Running freight trains in “sections” is not common today…as almost all trains are run as extras instead of “scheduled” trains, so the second section will run as its own train.

Dividing train into sections was more common with passenger operations…when more people booked a ride on, say a Zeypher" than the trainset could hold, a second train was assembled to handle the overflow, and dispatched shortly after the “first” section.

Flag colors denoted whether the train you are looking at is the first section, flying green flags, the second section with white, or the last section, red.

Of course, if the second section was also the last, it would fly red flags.

The flags let other, opposing trains know that they were looking at only a part of a train, that there were other sections following closely behind that one, and what part or section of the train they were looking at.

If you had train orders telling you to hold a siding and meet train 101, lead engine 3456, you would know that if engine 3456 passed you flying green flags, there was more of the train following in at least one more section, so you stay in the clear in the siding till a train passes flying red flags, letting you know that they are the rear section of train 101, and nothing is following them.

White flags are also used to denote an “extra” train, one running unscheduled and not listed on the timetable, be it a passenger extra or freight extra…and it was usually a low priority train, as scheduled trains were given preference by dispatchers.

Class lights on diesels are or were used in the same manner, to denote a train run in sections…and as you will note, no one builds locomotives with class lights any more, haven’t for a long time, as

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From the railfan’s perspective of freight trains operating over a railroad, nearly all the trains are Extra’s as defined in the book of rules. Timetable and Train Order form of Schedules have passed into history on most, if not all railtoads.

However from the railroads perspective, nearly all trains operate on a schedule. Normal merchandise trains operate as a part of a scheduled network of trains for each carrier and each train has blocks of cars that are scheduled to each train. Measures such as ‘Right Car-Right Train’ are used by carriers to measure the efficiency of their networks for cars making their scheduled trains and the trains making their scheduled connections. Even ‘unscheduled’ traffic has some form of scheduling applied to it. Shipper/Consignee’s expect X days transit between the tender of the shipment and the delivery of the shipment…example Grain Facility A tenders shipment of a 65 car Unit Grain Train on Monday and Chicken Farm B expects delivery of that train on Thursday. Other forms of bulk commoditys have similar shipping expectations. The movement of freight cars across a carriers property is not nearly as chaotic as it may seem from the passage of a single freight train.

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In Time Table and Train Order days, all sections of a schedule except the last displayed green signals. A regular train or the last section of a regular schedule displayed no signals.

A train displaying white signals was an extra train with no time table schedule.

A freight train running as a second section of a freight schedule may not have any relation to the regular freight schedule. If say a coal train was going to be leaving behind a regular scheduled manifest train, the dispatcher for his convenience may just run the coal train as a section of the scheduled train instead of as an extra. (Even the train running on the regular schedule may not be the symbol the schedule was set up for. If the manifest was hours late, they could run the coal train on that schedule and run the manifest later as an extra.) The train running as the first section would display green classification signals, the train running as the second section (and last section) would display no signals.

A second section of a passenger schedule could be overflow from the first section or it could be something else, like a specially chartered passenger train.

Now since for most, if not all railroads, time table schedules and extra trains don’t exsist in this era of TWC, DTC, and CTC, there still are sections of some train symbols. The ones that I have seen are usually coal trains. Once in a while there will be a third section. I am guessing that it has something to do with the originating date out of the mine. As an example, if the North Antelope mine loads two coal trains for the Fruitland power plant on the 29th, the symbols would be CNAFL-29 for the first and 2CNAFL-29 for the second. Anyone who knows more, please jump in because I’d like to know if that’s a correct guess.

Jeff

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As a general rule, ATSF operated unscheduled passenger trains (charters, troop trains, etc.) as sections of a scheduled train. During WW2, it was not uncommon for the Fast Mail (#'s 7-8) to run in multiple sections, the extra sections being troop trains. This probably made life a little easier for the dispatcher, although I’m sure that the crews on an opposing freight waiting for all the sections of the Fast Mail to pass were not too happy.

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The practice of operating “Advance” sections comes about when a particular service or schedule regularly generates a complete train several hours prior to the scheduled operating time. The dispatcher does not care if it operates or not, but to operate such a service as an extra usually creates considerable problems - espicially with the marketing folks.

The yardmaster doesn’t like to have the full train sitting in his yard taking up space he needs for other traffic and the maketing folks don’t want the schedule to operate early because it loses its “name identity” which they are spending money and man hours building up.

So, operating makes a new schedule based on when the traffic is usually ready, the yardmaster gets his track and the marketing folks get to use the service mark they are trying to build by naming the service “Advance (name of service)”.

Sections can not operate ahead of the timetable schedule. The first section operates on that timetable schedule and each subsequent section gets a “run late” order. Each section must be created by a separate train order.

Red flags must not be displayed at the front of a train except by a flagman sent ahead to stop opposing movements. Red flags by day or a red light by night signify the markers of a train.

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I recall there was also a whistle signal … one long and two shorts I think to call attention to signals displayed for section following. No matter how many sections a train was in in they all had right by timetable schedule not train order. Who remembers the old consolidated code anymore ? Superiority of trains , trains are superior by Right , class and direction. Right is conferred by train order and class and direction by timetable schedule.

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This has been explained quite well by the railroad operating folks on this thread. Today railroads operate 2nd sections in order to move the freight that cannot be handled by one train.

For example, NS operates a daily train 17R from Chicago to Columbus, Oh. The train is received from CN. I believe the train is built in Fond du Lac, Ws. It runs thru Chicago without yard work. In other words there is enough business on the CN and NS to run a train from Fond du Lac to Columbus. Freight is assembled from Wisconsin and actually Western Canada into this train. This train usually runs long and heavy. I have seen it up to 150 cars. The train has considerable lumber cars from Western Canada, plus natural resources from that area. Kaolin cars (empties) are also a regular on this train.

If there is a second 17R (not uncommon) NS will symbol that train M7R. The “M” designates that it is an additional section for the 100 series trains. Confused? 17R is actually a 100 series train on the NS.

NS train 306 will occasionally run in second sections. It is referred to as W06. W is used for 300 series trains. The letter I is used for the 200 series of trains. NS very frequently runs addtional sections of intermodal trains such as 230 ( which is I30).

CN, on the other hand refers to their trains as “extra”. They will run a daily 396 from Memphis to Toronto. A second section is “extra 396”.

Railroading operational people will be able to explain this in more detail. I believe most trains carry a date designation. For example CSX runs a train 156 from Chicago to New Jersey. Today’s train would be symboled CSX156-01 for the date (June 1st).

For me it is interesting to note the passage of trains and the time involved with these movements. One can develope a sense of the schedule of a railroad.&