I want to buy five passenger cars and a diesel with Amtrak lettering. I would like to have a couple of passenger cars, a dining car, an observation car and a “swallow tail” car. I am not beholden to a particular era; I want “classic” looking Amtrak cars. I was planning on getting a few of the Kato cars, but the Walther’s cars look good are are reasonbly priced. I do like the Kato F40PH Diesel with DCC sound.
Any thoughts? Thank you.
Dan
Knowing Kato, the engine will be top-notch. I have a set of the walthers superliners, they are very good once you get the wheels in guage. So I think you have some good choices there. Go for it!
Dan;
Kato and Walthers are a good combination as Joe say. Keep in mind that you will need rather larger minimum radius for good appearances and operation.
Dan,
“Swallow tail” car? Do you mean an Observation Car like on this link?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-6501
The Walthers Budd Cars would fill the bill nicely as F40s hauled these for years. Amtrak classified these cars as the “Heritage Fleet” equipment. Regardless which cars you get…replace those “EZ mate” couplers that they have with Kadees.
If you have tight curves, Kadee #49 will prevent the diaphrams from binding, though the gap between cars will be increased.
Antonio hit the nail on the head. They are great cars and with a little work you can pull off brass quality, but they are fine as is. You have a great start with the Kato and will end up with a great train. Check out the below link for reference. I find it critical to ahve prototype photos when starting a passenger train.
Thank you, all, for the input… It seems that the Kato loco is a good bet, but why spend the extra money for Kato cars over those made by Walther? Also, Should I be concerned about the different Amtrak Phases(I,II,III and IV)?
I have 3 Proto 2000 Amtrak E8/9 and like them very much. I ordered a Proto 2000 UP E8 set with DCC and sound should fit the Rainbow era. There is a great video about Amtrak from 1971-1981 and another I think from 1981-1991. The first one shows much of the very early years in action with the different array of unpainted cars and motive power. It also has the first all Amtrak trains and the first F40’s. It was a few years before the trains became all Amtrak so a mix of cars could also be appropriate. You would see UP cars on the east coast etc. Time frame will dictate how the classic Amtrak train will look.
RMax1
RMax1: How do the Proto locos differ from the Kato loco? Six of one, one-half of another?
What era, or years, are you modeling? And also, what scale are you modeling? Your choices of manufacturer will depend on the scale you are modeling. I think a few folks here, including myself, have assumed HO.
I am modelling HO. Era-wise, it will be a bit loose; if I want mostly ready-built structures, won’t they be primarily from the '60s or '70’s?
I’m not aware of Kato doing any HO scale Amtrak cars apart from the commuter bilevels and the business car - Walthers are a good choice though. Get the interior lighting units to go with them if you can, they work very well indeed and are very easy to install. The “Phases” are livery variants - these were mixed, though you may want to have the whole set in the same paint scheme. If you take a look at photos of Amtrak consists online you should be able to get an idea of what Phases ran together (as with any fleet, not all stock was repainted at the same time). Hope this is of help!
Update: After doing a bit more research, I throw the following out to you:
I am beginning the laying of track tonight on my 5 x 8 HO layout. With regard to the locomotive, I am interested in a Kato EMD F40PH , but the Athern AMD 103 looks like a great loco at half the price. With regard to the passenger cars, I was looking at the Walther’s Phase IV Sleeper, Diner, Superliner Sleeper, Superliner Lounge and the Budd Tavern Observation car. The layout will be powered via DCC(NCE Powerhouse Pro).
I called a LHS to check on availability of the Walther’s passenger cars; the owner told me that she could barely give them away-junk.
My questions: What’s wrong with Walther’s passenger cars? What else is everyone using? What about my choice of Locos? Is one loco better than the other for DCC and on-board sound? I welcome all suggestions and advice.
Thank you for your time.
Dan
DK,
The phases you’re referring to are the paint schemes that Amtrak has used over the years. Phase one is the old “Pointless Arrow” scheme with the red and blue stripes almost touching each other. That was from 1971 through about 1980. The observation car on the link above is painted in the Phase 1 scheme.
The phase II scheme was similar to the Phase 1 scheme, but it was used on the locomotives, which originally had red noses.
Phase III: Here’s a link. Also an observation car, but look at the stripes:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-6503 This Red, White, and Blue stripe scheme, introduced around 1979-80, seems to be favored by many modelers. This was the time period when the old Heritage cars were being completely rebuillt. This paint scheme was popular and well liked.
Once the Heritage Cars were rebuilt, they could be used in conjucntion with Amfleet cars and Superliners since they shared the same electrical system for heating and air conditioning. The system was known as “HEP” or Head End Power. Inspite of the efficiency of HEP, the Canadians successfully managed to continue to run VIA passenger trains with the old boiler system.
The Amtrak cars in the Phase 1 scheme, which had not been rebuilt, relied on boilers in the locomotives (steam heating) for heating and a/c. By 1983, heritage cars that had not been rebuilt and repainted were either sold off, or scrapped.
Also, check out this link: http://hebners.net/amtrak
But don’t worry so much about the phases though. Go with what you like. The Walthers Budd cars look good in any scheme, period.
After you get comfortable with you Budd cars, don’t forget to carefully disassemble one at time and paint your interiors. Makes a huge difference in appearance!
Nothing is wrong with the newer run Walthers cars, they are great cars. The first run had some issues like wheels being out of guage and the metal springs that provided the resistance for the diaphrams were too stiff. The newer cars have improved on these problems. It is obvious why that hobby shop owner can’t sell anything.
I would highly discourage mixing Superliner and standard level equipment. The closest you might have seen to this was some of the passenger trains that Amtrak took over from the Santa Fe in the early days, and that was before the Superliner equipment. At that time they were still using the Budd Hi Level cars and maintained the consists as the Santa Fe had them, such as the consolidated El Capitan/Super Chief (which Santa Fe did not allow Amtrak to use the name).
If you are going to be modeling the 70s era, you would want to use phase 1, and what was at that time considered the rainbow fleet/era. A lot of the passenger cars still wore the paint of their original owner. I would definataly stick to standard level heritage equipment.
Are the Superliners too tall to sit well with the other cars? They look so neat! (This, coming from a 45 year old man, jeez!).
They are just not something that was typically mixed. Basically what it boils down to, you can run your trains the way you want. BUT, if you want to run protoypically, I wouldn’t mix. They are definately taller than the standard cars.
Edit: Another thing, Amtrak never had a Superliner car at that time that could be used for revenue passengers to get from Superliner equipment to standard level equipment. The closest thing in the era you are talking about would have been the Hi Level step up/down cars, and those were eventually converted to coach/dormitory cars with the steps being in the dormitory section.
Generally, due to clearance issues, the bi-level Superliner cars run west of Chicago, and the single level Horizon, Hertiage, and Amfleet cars run east of Chicago. With the exception of baggage/express cars, bi-level and single level cars are never mixed in consist.
Also, don’t overlook the Spectrum F40PH. My Amtrak fleet consists of Phase III Specturm F40PHs and Amfleet cars.
Nick
- We ARE Penn State! -
Smitty: How do I avoid the purchase of first run walther’s cars? Would hobby shops only stock later runs at this point?
DK,
Contact Walthers at 1-800-487-2467. Customer Service is pretty decent and they would be the best authority to ask. The bar codes on the ends of the boxes could be an indicator. Be aware that some businesses will keep some items in stock for “yeeeaarsssss”, especially model railroad shops.
CSmith is correct about Superliner and single level cars not mixing…however, Heritage baggage cars were used regularly on Superliner trains.
You said your layout was 5x8, which (as far as I know, school just started again, my math may not be 100% back yet [;)]) won’t allow for large radius curves. If you decide that the curves are too tight for Walthers don’t forget about Athearn, their cars are a bit short (why they are good for small layouts) but you can get away with them. I have an Athearn AMD 103 in Ph. 5 scheme and I am very satisfied with it, although I had to add some weight so it could pull my very long train. I’m sure the Kato is absolutely wonderful, but if you’re going for a more modern look go with the AMD 103.