Alaska Canada Rail Link

Maybe it’s the cold outside or cabin feaver, or a combination of the two, I dunno. I was reading some more about the Artic Railroading thread, and was also thinking about the CN note that the rail yard at Hay River,NWT was the farthest northern point in the North American Rail net. Several years back there was some discussion that centered around one of the Alaskan politicians then in Congress, and a study project for the feasibility of linking the ARR to a Canadian line so there would be a direct rail link into the lower US.

There was a site linked off the Alaska RR’s home page (under Corporation, click on projects, then on the next page click on studies that will bring you to the third page at the bottom is a series of links under the heading:

"Alaska Canada Rail Link Phase 1 Feasibility Study - For information purposes only, not an official Alaska Railroad project " and the first link is to this external off ARR web site:

http://alaskacanadarail.com/report.html.

Following that link are three more links to various studies under phase 1 of the project.

An Executive Summary–A Research Summary–Followed by a Tourism Annex

Within

Will never happen, just no need nor demand for a rail link and it may cost a few bucks too. This has been kicked around since the 1900’s, there are 2 things we will never see in North America, no rail service from Canadaland to Alaska and no long distance high speed passenger trains, maybe from Toronto to Montreal, maybe.

Tatans:

I would hope you are mistaken for one thing, and the other is “Never say Never.” The subject study of this thread is pretty thorough and has some seemingly, pretty thorough research done on the potentials for a rail link . There was a reference made to the television show, “Ice Road Truckers” . I think it showed a lot of people who are not, and probably will never get into that far northern region.

Some of the things that are now taking place north of the Arctic Circle; in the areas of mineral exploration and mining that even a few short years ago would never have been considered as even an eventuality.

And if you read the links provided to the study, you’ll notice that it does not even consider the exploration and proposals for the areas of the Northwest Territories, (ie. recently, the new CN Yard facility at Hay River and the Yellowknife area as a base for further Arctic activities. There is a lot going on up in that country that is bringing in new capital for new activities. The point is, the next few years should point to many changes, and many more potential possibilities in the Arctic environment. [2c]

There does seem to be some serious studies going on in Canada of the possibility of extending CN into the Yukon due to the coal and metals mining projects being developed up there, that could open the door to the AlCan link…

The Alaska Railroad currently uses a barge link to connect with other railroads. If Alaska is connected to the rest of North America by land, does it become feasible to barge rail cars across the Bearing Sea to a Eurasian connection?

(1) Nothing against the poster, but f I had a dollar for every time we have seen this on here . . .

(2) Can one of the learned railroad people on here please explain to me what would be gained by an Alaskan rail link that would provide a benefit immeasurably better than steamship service? Links to a specific mine, on-line service, etc, I get that. But, I just do not know why anyone would invest that much for what appears to be essentially bridge traffic that can be provided by steamship?

Gabe

While you wait for a learned person to weigh in, I’ll comment that I am as baffled as you are. Minerals want to go to tidewater.

RWM

Hi All

I’m not learned in the sense of which you speak.

I will say that there is a partially constructed ROW in Northwestern BC which is most likely to remain just that until such time as interior mining in that portion of the province becomes economically viable. That’s unlikely to occur until such time as electrical power, construction, production and transportation costs are reduced to the degree necessary to make the ore (or other material) competitive in cost. Whenever that is…

BTW, there is Ottawa (federal) money on the table to extend power transmission lines into that part of the province. Approval also depends on provincial funding. This is not yet guaranteed. The transmission lines currently go as far north as Stewart BC. Given the rough terrain and the long distances (360 km+) involved thereafter, I wouldn’t hold my breath…

Charlie

Chilliwack, BC

The closest railroads on the other side are all Broad gauge (Russian 5 foot gauge) so I would think shipping railcars wouldn’t be practical…

Once you ferried the cars accross the Bearing Sea, isn’t it 1000+ miles to get to the closest Russian railroad anyway?

Is that because - under recent and current economic conditions - the minerals have their highest and best use - and hence price - at overseas factories, instead of domestically, for metallurgical use (burning of coal) or smelting/ refining (for the ores) ?

Didn’t used to be that way. The minerals would want to go to Pittsburgh and similar ‘steel town’ places for iron ore and metallurgical coal, and whatever their equivalents were for copper, gold, silver. Are there any other minerals in Alaska or NW Canada in quantities that would lend themselves to rail shipment - and hence could support that massive required investment

The Alaska-Canada rail link will be a key compontent of a Bering Strait Crossing [:P]
(Please don’t hold your breath waiting for its construction, however)

Won’t happen, unless Alberta (no Provincial Sales Tax) becomes our 51st State. The entrenched ‘politicos’ will see that the idea is sauashed. Also, the line would have to have passenger service, so that the “Native Americans/First Nation People” could return whence they came.

Maybe a hidden sales tax eh? Calgary already thinks it’s part of the U.S. I heard a rumor Alberta is talking to Montana about joining Alberta, ( remember, Alberta makes about a quadrillion dollars a day on royalties) and they have the lowest royalty payment anywhere - - -they could pay for Montana in 2 weeks.

Won’t happen, unless Alberta (no Provincial Sales Tax) becomes our 51st State. The entrenched politicos will see that the idea is sauashed. Also, the line would have to have passenger service, so that the Native Americans/First Nation People could return whence they came.

How many miles is the gap that would have to be built?

As someone who drove the Alcan weekly for six years i can tell everyone it is a beautiful hostile area. There is untold mineral wealth waiting for development that may never come. It is known that Coal, Iron Ore, Uranium, Gold, Silver and other minerals already exist. The problem is transportation if it is developed. This has been a problem for as long as i can remember.

Would I like to see a RR connect the Alaska RR with CN, you betcha. I think if it ever happened in my lifetime I would be one of the first to book a passenger ticket.

There is something about BC Northern Alberta Yukon territory and Alaska that has a way of making one appreciate nature at its finest. Do I think it would be economically feasible to build a RR through the region Yes. If they could push the Alcan highway through in just over a year with conditions the way they were in WW II compared to today and with the equipment we have today it should be easy but expensive. Do I think it could eventually pay its way again yes. Once population growth follows and development of the minerals etc. begins I think it could be a very profitable venture. Whatever happened to the pioneer spirit of our forefathers has it died. Are we raising a country of wimps or what. I marveled at the Alcan everytime I drove it. And remember it is a year round artery.

Al - in - Stockton

If I remember the October 2002 Trains article about the steel industry correctly, it seems like even then they traveled by water as much as possible.

[quote user=“Paul_D_North_Jr”]

Is that because - under recent and current economic conditions - the minerals have their highest and best use - and hence price - at overseas factories, instead of domestically, for metallurgical use (burning of coal) or smelting/ refining (for the ores) ?

Didn’t used to be that way. The minerals would want to go to Pittsburgh and similar ‘steel town’ places for iron ore and metallurgical coal, and whatever their equivalents were for copper, gold, silver. Are there any other minerals in Alaska or NW Canada in quantities that would lend themselves to rail shipment - and hence could support that massive required investment

According to Mike Walker’s SPV atlas of “Western Canada”, you can get to Chipmunk, BC on CN (BCOL). Beyond that, to Jackson, the rail was laid, and the line graded all the way to Dease Lake. Without relevant topographical maps, I don’t have a clue if it could be connected to the WP&Y. The other CN (PGE) line goes as far north as Fort Nelson, BC and CN (GSLR) reaches Hay River, NT. Beyond that, I don’t have a clue. It would make an interesting “Master’s” thesis or “Doctoral” dissertation, finding the best route.

I do think that the traffic could be found to make it a viable rail route, benificial to both countries. It might decrease the cost-of-living in the area where sales taxes are non-existant (except Ottawa’s GST), but prices very high. Wow! Refrigerated “Moose Express” cars, heading for Chicago and Montreal! They could back-haul ice to keep the Polar bears on friga firma. Seriously, CNG and LP gas, as well as oil, are natural comodities, southbound.

As always, politics will be the deciding factor.

Hays – say “Hello” to my cousin, Joan Hansen, in Chilliwack. Beware: she’ll try to convert you, and not away from being a railfan!

Does anyone have a RR map of this area?