This review is on the HO scale brass ALCO C-630 by KMT, imported by Alco Models.[:D]
According to everyone’s favorite Wikipedia (because I’m too lazy to look for a more credible source), 77 C-630 diesels were built from 1965 to 1967 for eight major railroads. That number doesn’t include the Canadian C-630M diesels. The data sheet shows that the 70 foot long monsters had 3,000HP, and could travel at speeds up to 70MPH. It was obviously intended for use on heavy duty freight, especially since it came around during a time when passenger railroads were becoming a thing of the past.
This C-630 made for Alco by KMT looks like a pretty good representation of the real ones. I don’t know when it was made, but my guess would be in the early 70s (someone else may be able to clarify its age better). The detail is pretty generic and lacking in a few places, but it’s really not bad overall. Except for the main truck frames and various drive parts, the model is made entirely from brass. It looks like the main body parts are a combination of cast and stamped pieces. It’s much better than my Tenshodo GP20 from the mid 60s, which was all stamped parts. Everything is soldered together, but some of the joints are a little weak.
The doors along the hood are done very finely for their time, and look about as good as modern plastic diesels. All the cast ventilation is very straight and clean for the most part, and some of the vents actually use very fine see-through mesh. The handrails are very straight and well made, but they’re also a bit lacking in detail. The cab looks very good, with clean lines and nicely shaped windows. The left side window is a little bit crooked, b
Wow, this absolutely has to take the cake for a product review so many years after a model originally came out, lol!
I will agree that they can be very affordable models.
I’m very glad that you are happy with your acquisition, and I hope you find lots of enjoyment running it, etc. It is also true that those of use who have spent lots of time studying the prototype are able to find some detail discrepancies with that particular model. You are correct that it is basically a generic version, and there were indeed variations among the prototypes. I hope my comments do not detract from your enjoyment of your acquisition.
In my case, there have been far too many models, brass or otherwise, that I dumped for whatever I could get once I did a little research and discovered they weren’t as accurate as I might have expected. The lesson to be learned is not to be so anal about detail that it detracts from one’s enjoyment of the models–it can make one miserable, or cost one a lot of money wasted by “trading” models. The technology of model making has make great leaps since the 1970’s, and those old workhorses should be appreciated for what they offered at the time. To find one in such clean condition unaffected by the ravages of deteriorating foam–well, you have quite a “survivor” there.
Amidst the plethora of models I was truly unhappy with, there were a few gems I sold partly because other equipment might have been scarce for that particular road, or my interests changed.
In hindsight, I wish I had a few of them back: The Custom Brass N&W/DRGW Z-1A 2-6-6-2, the PFM Crown DRGW M-75 4-8-2, and the Westside SP 4-10-2 stand out.
I’ve got a couple of their C636’s that I bought when they came out. I think they were produced after the C630 reviewed. In particular, I note that the center axles on mine are powered. I think these models stand up nicely, still. The weakest point is the sorta-naked ends. Mine run smoothly but noisily, just like the above C630. I get the impression that they could live with some added weight. And some pickup wipers on the insulated wheels. I’m looking forward to further descriptions of the mods on the reviewed unit, as I hope to someday do mine up as BN patched SP&S units.
Ed
PS: The Hi-ad sideframes on these are really quite nice.
Good to see a review that doesn’t completely blast these models, Darth! [:)]
I have one of the Alco/KMT RSD15’s myself. As you said, it is noisy, but runs smoothly. When I purchased it 10 years ago or so, the previous owner had already replaced the motor with a Mashima motor, flywheels, and better universals. Now it runs fairly quietly, though you can still hear the gear whine.
I added some extra electrical pickups using a couple of small pieces of PC board and phosphor bronze wire, and that pretty much eliminated the stalling on switches.
Like you said, they’re not the most detailed, but they’re decent, inexpensive models.
I’ve just replaced the original universals with a set from NWSL. The NWSL shafts are much cleaner looking, and unlike the KMT parts, the balls match their sockets perfectly. The reduction in noise is incredible!![:D] The coffee grinder sound is gone, the whine has been reduced, there’s no more vibration, and the free running current draw was reduced by about 50mA! There’s still a significant whine from the gear towers, but it’s nowhere near as bad as it was before.[:D] So to any one who has or might own an Alco/KMT diesel, replace the universals with NWSL parts! It will run much better![:D]
Nice review, Darth. Boy, that is one bruiser of a motor, and as long as it has retained it’s magnetism, it should run forever. Can you post a video of it running with the new universals?
One possibility for replacement sideframes could be the Rivarossi U25C, which Rivarossi modified for use on the first version of the Tyco 630 that was contracted out to them. I assume the wheelbase is the same, but for some reason those KMT trucks look a little long to me.
The trucks may be a little longer than they should be. Although, my only reference is my IHC C-628, and it may not be completely to scale. The trucks that Rivarossi made for the Tyco C-630 were actually different from the U25C trucks, so I can’t really go by my U25C either.
Thanks for the demonstration. [tup] The noise doesn’t seem bad at all, especially considering all of those spur gears inside a brass shell. Is the motor narrow enough for the hood to be scale width? It doesn’t have the chunky look of old Athearn hood units.
Btw, here’s a shot of the RR/Tyco sideframes. The tooling sure looks the identical the U25C to me, just attached to a different underframe. I don’t have one for direct comparison, tho.
Those are the field laminations. They do look funny when painted black. [:)]
Great review, glad to see another modeler that appreciates the older brass diesels. No need for a fancy sound system, they make thier own sound! We have an old Hallmark FM baby train master nicely painted for NW that works the coal dock yard at the club layout, noisy as all get out, but will pull like an ox and run super slow. I went thru it for the owner last fall, added 8 wheel pickup to it and serviced the drive. While it does retain the older drive shafts, an upgrade there is planned soon. I myself just purchased a nicely painted Alco models Alco RS11 painted for the D&H. I will do the NWSL shaft upgrade to it once I recieve it. The side frames dont look as bad once painted and weathered a bit to bring out the details they do have. Also, painting the grey truck body casting a dark black color helps to hide them in the shadows under the engine. Mike
I just remembered one thing about the universals that I had nearly forgotten about. Although the KMT motor has 2.4mm shafts, the truck towers use something closer to 2.5 or 2.6mm. I had to grind them down a little at a time before the couplings would go on, and the old brass horned ball was on so tight that it had to be cut off (the shafts were too long anyway [:D]).[:O] But, it was all worth it in the end.
Here is my recent purchase, Alco models RS11 painted up for the D&H with lighted headlights, numberboards and class lights. Stole this one off fleabay, didnt run well as so many do at first. I upgraded the trucks to eight wheel power pickup by adding wipers to the insulated side wheels, cleaned the old lube from all the gear boxes as it had turned almost solid, relubricated with Labelle brand oils, cleaned and lubed the motor. Mine already has hobbytown of boston drive shafts in it. Even with the old open frame motor, same as Darth’s C630, mine will just crawl along smooth and not much noiser than an old Athearn blue box engine. The axle gears in this one are metal, so no worry about popped gears. The fuel tank is filled on both sides with lead, so she is very heavy, no problem with 25+ car trains. You going to paint that C630 Darth? Or just leave it shiny brass? Cheers Mike
Looks like you got a good one there! The metal gearing does run smoothly.
I’ll be painting my C-630 for Penn Central. It’s simple, looks good enough, and I have just enough decals left from when I painted my Hobbytown and Tiger Valley ALCOs for one more large diesel (and I realize it has the wrong pilots for PC diesels, but hey! It’s generic! And it’s mine![:D]).[:D] I like shiny brass, but mine has some discoloration from bad foam. If I’m going to leave a brass unit unpainted, I want the brass to look really good.[:D]
I am working on aquiring a C430 that I will have someone that can paint better than I do up in the Demo colors since the D&H didnt have C430’s That one of yours would be awsome in the D&H lightning strip paint scheme. I do plan to find one like yours in the near future. Cheers Mike
This got the drive shaft/Mashima motor & electrical upgrades and and hhas been actively running 1for 15 years at least.I painted the unit. It’s my last Alco Model that hasn’t gotten a modern truck upgrade (Stewart). The rest of my half dozen Alco Models have gotten complete drive upgrades to include Atlas trucks and run like any modern Atlas or Kato engines (I bought them to run not sit on shelves). They’ve also had body mods and details added to match they’re prototypes.
Beautiful work Jay!!! I myself dont mind the drive noise. Guess it comes from all my years running Lionel 3 rail stuff, just part of the nostalgia of old trains. I have the drive in that RS11 running super smooth and really no more noisy than a blue box Athearn. In fact the gear whine to me is more pleasing, almost like a turbo whine, over the growling of a noisy Athearn. The noise is actualy helpfull at our local club with its many tunnels. Its a large non DCC layout, so your stuck at your control cab and its many block power switches. With the noise, I have a good idea if she is moving and roughly where I am. I am working on trading my new HOn3 Tweetsie ten wheeler for 5 more older brass engines that will become D&H units. I am planning a small U shaped D&H layout, with mainly brass diesels, only exception would be 2 Athearn RS3’s While a couple engines would be a slight fopah model wise, they would be close enough for me. The C430 I am getting would be in demo colors since its not even close to anything the D&H had, but I love those hi-ad trucks. Adding all wheel pickup fixes many of the ailments these older diesels have. As long as the gear whine isnt a problem, even with the original open frame motor in proper tune is only drawing .5 amp on my RS11 and thats with 2 12vt light bulbs lighted as well. While I am strictly DC operation, DCC isnt out of the question with proper isolation of the motor or just remotoring with a newer can motor. For now I will stay DC mode due to the local club layout and I like to “kick cars” in the yard, hard to do that with a decoder, in DC mode you cant just instantly kick from forward to reverse to “kick” a car when you reach the uncoupling mag. And I love the ozone smell when I fire up the layout or the engines after the summer down time when I work on my other hobbies. Jay, do you swap in a custom chassis, or do you adapt the trucks to the factory bras
Since I reviewed this engine, I’ve noticed some interesting things happening with the running quality. First, because of the unpowered middle axles, there were traction “dead spots” in some places, where the engine would ride on both middle axles and lose most of its traction. Second, the metal gears were continuously getting noisier and running more roughly, and I couldn’t fix it no matter what I did. So, I upgraded the engine with a 6-axle regear kit from NWSL. I also added flywheels while I was at it.
The NWSL kit uses polished steel worms and 15-tooth delrin gears, which have to be pressed on. Since the C-630 was designed for four geared axles, I had to modify the bottom truck plates to clear the middle gear (main truck frame was fine). The worms press on very tightly, and the axle gears are also tight enough that no glue is needed to hold them in place on a smooth shaft. The combination of the tower gear reduction and the new 15 tooth axle gears (KMT used 13 tooth gears) increases the total ratio to 21:1.
The difference in running is noticably better, and the speed isn’t reduced much because the NWSL gears run smoother and more freely than the KMT gears. The new top speed is now 57.4 scale MPH, and the minimum speed is around 2.5 scale MPH. The current draw running free is now 0.27 amps. The traction isn’t a whole lot more than it was, but the “dead spots” for traction are now gone. The NWSL gears are also pretty quiet with a slight low growl, but the growl should be reduced with running. The flywheels add enough momentum to further smooth out the running nicely, and the motor coasts enough that it can make it through dirty spots, if they should ever happen.
If your KMT diesels are running rough, I would recommend this upgrade. It will bring the running quality up to a level similar to modern high quality diesels (although it will still whine with those tower gears).
Very interesting read here Darth, I also have sveral of the old Alco KMT diesels that I “play” with as time permits. Picked up some beautifully painted Union Pacific SD40-2s that are getting OMI trucks and motors in them. Then went on a quest to find some of the old “Trainmaster” engines. Back when I was buying them I was getting them for anywhere from $25 to $75 each. Of course finding OMI trucks for those is useless so I ended up installing Athearn Trainmaster drives under them, frames and all. I marked the original holes for the screws for the mountings and drilled the frame, then knocked the coupler extensions off and mounted them under the shells. They now run as smooth as glass and very “quiet” as well. Those old Athearn Trainmasters seem to be everywhere for $10-25 so it makes for a really cheap upgrade. As an interesting side note I figured out that what is causing all of the noise besides those crappy universals is the frame itself. I found this out as I was experimenting with different combinations and mounted a set of the KMT trucks into an Athearn “cast” frame. When I reinstalled it back under the engine is was considerably quieter than it was with the brass frame. My guess would be that the original frame is just to “flimsy” and conducts any and all vibrations inside the shell just like a sounding board in a piano.
Of course with the engine you have here that would be a little tougher unless the Bowser C630 frame is available seperately, but the “cast” metal frame makes a really big difference and adds to the pulling power as well as helps electrical conductivity.
Hope this helps you in your quest for the “ultimate” KMT diesel as they really are nice old models for the money and sometimes they have really expensive paint jobs on them and it’s ashame to see them go to the scrap pile just because no one is willing to take the time to work with them as you have.
My reason for converting to “modern” drives and trucks is for speed compatabilty with my Atlas, Kato and upgraded and updated Athearns. I run my locos, non of them are shelf queens.
For brass conversions to modern drives (Atlas, Kato) I would open the chassis’ floor up to allow the new trucks to swing and add a new brass bolster either soldered or JB Welded in.
While not brass, here are a couple of examples of drive conversions, sorry I don’t have any pics of brass conversions but they were done similarly.
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.jpg](http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1069636/AlcoC-628609(Brass).jpg!%5B%7C600x400%5D(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1069636/AlcoC-628609(Brass).jpg){kind=link}