Regular visitors to this site will know that a bunch of us here in the UK have custody of a 1949 S1 - Schenectady 77778 - which we’re hoping to restore to running order.
Despite last running at least 15 years ago the 539 in her is in good order - or at least it appears to be.
We’ve encountered a small problem, however. We can’t bar her over (ie manually turn the crankshaft).
Yesterday we primed every cylinder with red diesel, at the same time discovering that the piston liners are in good condition, but she still won’t turn.
We have a vast collection of ALCo manuals but they don’t explain how to carry out this operation.
Does anyone have any practical advice on this one? Is there possibly an interlock off the generator that we’ve overlooked?
http://www.ukalcogroup.co.uk/ shows that we mean business but at this stage we’d rather not have to take the cylinder heads off.
SDR’s advice sounds good.I think a similar question has recently been asked on the Alco forum at Railroad.net . Here is a link www.railroad.net/forums/index.php scroll down the list of topics till you come to Alco
after not running for 15 years there is going to be rust on all surfaces. I worked as a mechanic and the hardest part of getting old equipment running again is getting it to turn over. Some steps to do 1 spary and I mean spary everything down with engine oil in the lower end. 2 rig and electric pump up to prelube the upper end. 3 instead of diesel use a penetrating oil on the cylinder liners to help break them free. 4 pull the injectors after 15 years they will need to be worked on. 5 diconnect the main genarator from the engine that may be the probelm also stuck in place. 6 check the upper end to make sure the valves will move teh 539 is an interferance fit and smacking a valve and bending one. 7 the most important thing is do not use to much force trying to bar the engine over you could break a timing gear or break a pushrod or snap a rod trying to move it.
We’re all fairly conversant with diesel engines (we already own or jointly own 9 between the members of the group) but some of your suggestions are good.
Edbenton - disconnect the engine from the main generator. Is there an easy way of doing this on a 539?
Fill the tops of the cylinders with a penetrant , wait a few days if not start loosening connecting rods until you find the stuck ones, sounds like you have more than two . that way you don’t have to pull all the power packs.
Randy
After 15 years any “oil” left in this engine should no longer be considered a lubricant but glue. It all must be flushed and removed before any attempt is made to move any parts or the damage could be catastrophic. The engine was worn when retired and if you run it wthout a complete dissasemly, inspection and repair I do not beleive it will run for very long. An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure. This will be much less expensive than if a rod goes thru the side of the block if a bearing seazes. Then you will need to buy an engine which will still need to be reconditioned. I do not mean to be discouraging but Dad said if a jobs worth doing its worth doing right.[2c] as always ENJOY
We’re trying to get definative answers but to our knowledge the block in 804 has clocked up at least 135,000 hours so yes, it’s well worn in. We do have a spare block, and crankshaft, and lots of other bits but really we’re in initial assessment stage mechanically right now.
We’re fairly happy that the liners are’nt in bad order. We’d certainly not attempt to put the engine under load without a complete flush. What we’re trying to establish right now is what work we need to do, which is why we’re trying to bar her over.
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I exchanged letters with George Hockaday until sadly he died. In one letter he said that after an engine had been standing for some years the injection fuel pump racks may well be seized in the bodies. He has had to resort to lots of penetrating oil and the judicious use of a brass hammer to get them loose. They can be individually disconnected from the linkage and dealt with one at a time. They must all slide in and out freely.
Also after such a long time out of use it is very likely that some of the valves may be stuck. liberal spraying of penetrating oil through the springs on all four valves on each head followed by generous oiling of the valve gear.
It may be a good idea to disconnect the coupling between the main generator and the compressor before try to bar the engine over, this will take a considerable load of the effort off barring.
The lube oil system should be primed with clean oil. There should be a connection into the main oil gallery on the front right hand side of the engine block. A simple semi-rotary hand pump will be more than adequate for this, similar to those fitted to BR class 08 locos. Remove the crankcase covers and the rocker covers and pump the oil until it can be seen coming from all the main and con rod bearings and the valve gear.
I am sure that you have already done most of this anyhow, but every little helps.
I havn’t tried barring 803 yet but am expecting the same sort of problems that you have encountered.
Malc.
Simon says you’re interesting in coming over to help with 804. He also said you might know a bit more about the British mods carried out on our locos. What do you know mate?
One of the mods carried out on 803 was to add a radiator bypass pipe fitted with a thermostat. The pipe was tapped into the engine block via one of the core plug holes on the front left hand side, ahead of the governor. The large turnbuclkes for adjusting the brakes were made by SCOW and have whitworth threads. All the axle boxes have had their original sloping outer profile milled off and fitted with steel plate covers, I assume this was done for clearence reasons as it makes the loco width across the axleboxes about 6" narrower. I have a box full of drawings showing these and various other work that was done by SCOW. These incude a drawing of engine pistons supplied by Hepolite of Lymington, Hants. Also drawing of modified axles and wheels. One of the Schenectady drawings of the air system shows a ‘car dump line’ with hose connections at each end of the loco, although this is not fitted on 803. Did SCOW have air operated slag ladle dump cars or similar? In the engine compartment on the right hand side near the front traction motor blower there is a car type alternator and a car battery in one of the battery boxes but no clue as to its purpose.
I would certainly like to help with 804 but time is a problem at the moment (or lack of it). I will have to go up into my attic and get the box of drawings out and have another look through them. Let me know if there is anything specific you want to know and I will try to help.
Malc.