Anecdotal observation: I have noticed that many visitors to New York seem to be scared of riding the subway to get around out of fear of getting lost or winding up in the wrong neighborhood. My personal experience as a visitor was quite different. When I visited New York many years ago, I stayed in New Jersey, took NJ Transit to Hoboken, PATH into Manhattan and easily used the subway to get around. I would look at my handy-dandy subway map, figure out where I was, where I wanted to go and plan out my route (including transfers) to get there. Of course, it probably helped that I grew up using public transit (CTA, South Shore, etc.) on a regular basis.
I’ll have observed that, too. In fact, in NYC the taxis scare me a lot more than walking around or taking the subway.
Whenever we take family vacations, it usually involves using transit of some kind, somewhere - usually coupled with rolling of eyes… Consequently, my kids are rather transit savvy for being from suburban Atlanta. In fact, my daughter spent a semester in Ireland and traveled around Europe on weekends with her roommates - she was the one figuring out the transit maps in the cities they visited. That made me proud!
Not just the subway but of public transit in general. It is ridiculous in one way. But if you have no experience with it I guess it can be daunting.
It is seeming as if the younger generations have a inability to read maps and to understand where they are in relation to where they want to go. With that being the case, New York and public transporation is a daunting undertaking.
I don’t trust city buses. No tracks!
If you have experience on any one system, most of your knowledge is transferable. The most daunting task these days is figuring out the fare card system.
My observation in NYC is that the signage for transit is confusing compared to that in some other large cities. Poor graphics and fonts.
You might try asking the bus driver.
Interesting comment on NYCTA signage. The Authority is proud of its uniformly “Helvitia” type signage! They might learn something from you. But what exactly confuses you?
I can’t agree with you, Schlimm. In Manhattan bus stop signs contain a map of the whole route and a schedule of when the buses stop. In New Jersey a very few bus stops have those amenities but almost all do not. If you are lucky you get a bus stop sign; in many places there is not even that.
In New Jersey if there is no bus stop sign NJT says the bus will stop at any place that is “reasonable.” But what is “reasonable” is undefined and bus drivers will not in fact stop at places they do not regularly stop. If you need to ride a bus and you are unfamiliar with the area there is really no way to know where it will stop unless you are lucky enough to see a regular rider waiting.
I was referring to the subways and specifically locations where several lines connect. The alphabet soup of trains on the same line could be confusing as well, especially for international visitors. I have no trouble with NYC, having been there countless times, but the signage is no where near as user-friendly as in Boston, Chicago, London, Berlin,Munich, Hamburg, Shanghai, Beijing, Toronto or Rome, to name a few places.
Certainly the alphabet soup is confusing. But is it the designation of trains or the sheer number of trains? New York has 24 subway lines which are designated by letters or numbers. That is a few more than, for example, Boston or Toronto have.
Remember that the New York rapid transit network is the most complex of any in the World. We did have a question that was answered that there are currently 73 different ways to route a train from Stillwell Avenue - Coney Island to Jamaica - Archer Avenue without reversting direction! So there is built-in confusion when you have four different services stopping at the same side of the same platform, as at DeKalb Avenue at certain times. Given the real enormity of the problem, I think the current signage is the best system that the subway has had, and it would really take a genius to improve it further.
The other vast systems generally have, or at the mos two, services share a given line. Boston’s Green Line is an exception.
C’mon people. The most complicated transit system has to be Tokyo. And I don’t know how to read the signs [8D]
He’s the problem! He “decides” where the bus is going to go… [:)]
(From The Honeymooners: Ralph Kramden is an overbearing New York City bus driver, who may have gotten to be like that from dealing with passengers who don’t know their way and are holding up his bus; his pal and neighbor Ed Norton is more amiable but does not work directly with the public as he is a city worker whose job involves the city sewers.)
Ralph: So Norton! Why are you late to the meetin’? I got here on time, and I had to get here from all the way cross town! You only needed to get here from two blocks up the street!
Norton: Well gee Ralph. I got here as soon as I could, but it was “upstream”, all the way!
Run the numbers another way, however:
Buy an older car (in my case, a MUCH older car) for which I can factor in both acquisition and repairs (seriously, if your car requires $1500 a year in repairs, you got a dud) and/or replacement costs at less than $100/month. Insurance on the old car, including commuting, amounts to $2/day or less for me, $1.50 if you’re only counting weekdays. Let’s, under your accounting system, call it $4/day. Plus gas, of course.
Meanwhile, let’s factor in cost of TIME. My wife could drive to work or back in 20 minutes. Transit takes about 50 minutes, and that’s with amazingly direct connections and service. There are times when I can go downtown for work and it’ll be cheap and easy ONLY because I can walk ten minutes to a subway station, then ten minutes at the end of a ten-to-20-minute ride (depends on the time waiting). My wife could ride a bike instead of belonging to a health spa. 
In my wife’s case, transit would sap another hour out of her day–a
Yes but I still say one size will never fit all. It will some times and other times not . !!!
The line I remember is:
Norton. “Ralph, life is like a sewer. You only get out of it what you put into it.”
Surveys from the younger generation are interesting. To their credit they are not smoking or anxious to buy cars. Unfortunately, the economy and lack of jobs may be the cause in part of their disinterest. However these traits make them good candidates for rail transit. Perhaps that was what the Amtrak Youtube Gangnam style video was about. My mindset growing up in the 80’s did not even think of rail travel/Amtrak as an option. I only began riding Amtrak after various TSA policies were implemented over the last decade. I was pleasantly surprised by the service and comfort riding the Crescent from Atlanta. However, when I recommend Amtrak to my piers here in Atlanta, they are usually surprised to hear that Amtrak even serves Atlanta.
I think more people will think of rail travel as an alternative as congestion on the highway and at the airports continues to cause frustration and delay. If rail services are only slightly improved consistently over time implementing the various adjustments mentioned, there could easily be a large favorable shift in rail service demand.
Atlanta south toward New Orleans or Atlanta north toward New York?