Alternative to soldering decoder connections

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

This morning I was going to install a pair of LokSound 5 decoders into a pair of DC P1K C-Liners. When I removed the shell, I discovered the existing wiring was connected to the circuit board not with soldered connections but with small plastic rectangular clips that snap in place over the tabs after the wire is threaded through the small hole. After my misadventure trying to solder a decoder into an Atlas RS-1, this seemed like a great alternative for me. Unfortunately there were only 7 such connectors and since I am installing speakers I will have more connections than I have clips. I’d like to order more of these but I don’t know what these clips are called. Does anyone know and can they tell me where I might buy more of them.

For now I am going to use the clips from the second C-Liner so I will have enough for one installation but naturally I want to do both.

2

John,

I don’t know the name of them but they are most likely available from large electronic supply vendors like Digi-key or Mouser. However, you’d probably have to buy them in large quantities - e.g. 1000 or >.

That said, they are still no substitute for soldering. Better to invest in a good, inexpensive, temperature controlled-soldering station like Xytronics. (See current thread about them.) It will make soldering easier and more enjoyable AND give you a better electrical connection between your locomotive and your Lok5 decoders than the plastic slide-on clips.

Not the answer you wanted to hear, I’m sure…

Tom

3

Life Like calls them PCB clips. Athearn calls them wire locks. Not sure if all manufacturers use the same size.

Do a search for the clips, I found the Athearn clips I needed on Ebay.

You might also give Walthers a call, since this is a P1K loco.

Mike.

4

They are called “snoods” or “hook heads” and are readily available on that auction site. However, they are almost universally panned as being nothing more than a cheap, unreliable, assembly-line method of attachment.

All you REALLY need for installing a decoder is a cheap, 7-or-so-watt soldering pencil with a small, pointed tip, some fine (.031 or smaller) rosin-core solder, and the mindset that less solder on a joint is better.

5

I’ve traced a lot of problems back to those plastic clips over the years for losing contact. First thing I do with a new engine is pull them off and solder the wires. I’ve literally thrown hundreds of those things in the garbage. If I knew somebody actually wanted them, I would have been tossing them in a container.

Mark.

6

Same here, I have some of the Athearn clips left over, as I give up using them, if the OP wants them.

Mike.

7

You probably weren’t following the thread in which I detailed how I destroyed an expensive LokSound decoder with a faulty soldering job. The problem isn’t the equipment, it is my skill level. Whenever I have attempted to solder wires onto tiny connections, it has gone badly. I can’t get the solder to go where I want it to. It ends up where it’s not supposed to be and creates a short which invariably fries the sensitive electronics. People tell me all the time that it is not that difficult and I’m sure for most people it is not but it is something I’ve never gotten the hang of and trying to learn gets expensive. The same is true of airbrushing. I’ve never learned to do that either which is why I have shelves of rattle can paints in my basement. I’m going to give these little plastic clips a try and if they prove not to be reliable, I can always try to solder the joints and hope I don’t destroy another decoder.

8

I also agree that soldering connections is the best approach. If you are making a mess with soldering you probably have too big an iron, too hot an iron, too thick a roll of solderor even too low a melting point for your solder.

Get either some solder wick braid if a solder sucking tool to quickly remove the excess when you get it.

Remember that every now and then you will need to solder something, no other option. You need to learn soldering anyway. Yes, you CAN do it.

9

I’ve been searching Ebay with those terms. I get nothing but head covers and scarves, and fishing jig hooks with different colored heads. [*-)]

Mike.

10

John,

I’m just curious (and I don’t remember if you mentioned these in your other thread):

  • What (make/model) soldering iron are you using?
  • What kind of solder are you using? - 60/40, 63/37 [lead/tin]
  • What OD (diameter) solder are you using?
11

I can’t speak for Stevert, but I read that the other thread and came away shaking my head. Airbrushing and soldering are in no way comparable.

In its simplest terms, soldering is the placing of the hot point of the iron on the pieces of metal to be soldered together and then holding a thin piece of solder over that spot. That is it.

Those little black clips are not reliable even when they are

12

I saw that in another forum, someone specifically asked where to buy snoods. The only snoods I can find are head coverings or fishing tackle. Someone recommended hook leads (which look too big to me to be of us use for the intended purpose) in 2 separate posts and the person asking for snoods said he bought hook heads (which also is fishing related)

Athearn wire locks have a big square hole. I’m not sure those are for the OP’s purpose either

http://www.averystreetstores.com/athearn-ho-scale-wire-locks-sd70-sd75-28-pieces-g63838/

13

Those things make poor contact as best. Avoid them. They are on the locos because it makes it quicker and cheaper for the Chinese factory to assemble the loco.

Put the wire through the hole and bend it over, but instead of putting the plastic clip on, just solder it to the board.

–Randy

14

That’s why I mentioned different sizes in my post, as the Athearn boards have a wider tab the than some others.

There’re unreliable anyway, especially on the pick-up strip that is on the trucks of Athearn and Kato locos.

Mike.

15

when they are on a decoder board, I remove them and solder the joints, excellent reliability… The clips go into the garbage can, not to be recycled, just garbage as far as I’m concerned …

16

I would suggest getting some small perf boards and practice soldering with and without soldering paste.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-4-pcs-Single-Sided-PCB-Busbar-Proto-Perf-Board-Bakelite-FR-2-5-7-cm-USA-Ship/113743119851?hash=item1a7b9e45eb:m:mVT04EAUlqR3u8fpHQw5kZw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-4-10-pcs-Double-Sided-Universal-PCB-Proto-Prototype-Perf-Board-2-8-2x8-cm/113735103007?hash=item1a7b23f21f:m:mx9on2gTUD_6Aq__RqMNUmQ

If you aren’t using small enough solder try some .031”/.8mm

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=.031"+rosin+core+solder+60+40&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_odkw=rosin+core+solder+60+40

17

OK, I bit the bullet and went ahead and soldered the decoder into place. Not the neatest soldering job but it seems to have gotten the job done. For safety I put strips of Kapton tape on the frame anywhere it was near a soldered joint. I put it on the programming track and programmed the address I wanted. Then put it on the track for a test run. At first I got nothing but after about 8-10 seconds it slowly came to life. Since this is a second hand loco that hasn’t run for a while, I put it on the wheel cleaner and that seemed to help a lot. It was still sluggish at first but then began to run smoothly. I had the shell off the whole time so I used the multi-meter to check the connections and everything looked good. This is my first Loksound decoder and there is a noticeable delay between turning the throttle and the loco responding. It was about a 3 1/2 second delay at start up. The time it took to stop seems to vary depending on the speed. When I ran it at top speed, which I would normally never do, it seemed to take 6 seconds or more to come to a stop after I shut off the throttle. At normal speed it would take about 2-3 seconds to come to a stop. Is this the way these decoders are programmed to operate. I have a couple P2K F-unit sets that start up and stop gradually but without nearly the delay I am getting with this decoder.

I haven’t attached the sugar cube speakers or the headlight yet. I have some LED lights on order which are supposed to arrive Monday. Tomorrow I plan to install the decoder in the other C-Liner. I plan to run them as an A-A set.

18

Hello All,

I learned years ago to buy the best tools possible- -within budget and use.

Recently I bought a Hakko FX-888D.

This is an extremely good soldering station at a “reasonable” price…about $100.00!

Some have commented that it is, “too extravagant” and have offered opinions on other more inexpensive solder stations that are, “just as good”.

For me, this $100.00 spent was well invested.

I began my electronic career as a theatrical electrician- -“Roadie” if you will.

At the time Weller soldering stations were the “Gold Standard”.

I began my soldering experience by making “trunk” or multi-plex cables of 12ga wire with 18-conductors; hot, neutral and ground for each pair of 6 circuits per cable. Each circuit was rated at 20 amps.

The multi-plex connectors had cup-shaped receptacles. These needed to be “prepped” by tinning them.

Next, the actual conductors “wires” needed to be tinned- -all with flux.

Finally, the conductors were mated to the receptacles.

The point of all this rambling is, begin your soldering education with large wires. Start with old used speaker wire.

Learn how the tinning process works. Understand how the temperature settings can affect the solder joint along with the importance of flux.

Yes, I agree that DCC components are expensive to replace, but once you learn the intricacies of soldering, over the life of a good solder station it will amortize out to the cost of your time and effort taken away from running trains or troubleshooting other inferior methods of decoder installation.

Hope this helps.

19

Question for the group: Would dirty wheels, run OK in DC, but not DCC? I suspect maybe it would. Dried out grease causing a problem, in my experience, would be visible in DC.

The acceleration and deceleration could totally be due CV settings of the decoder. Electrons move at the speed of light, so it’s not a soldering issue. Page 55 Section 10.1 of the V-5 manual

There is also a programable delay that causes the engine to sound to start before the engine moves at all. 13.2

The V-5 manual is way more complicated than the V-4 manual but acceleration shouldn’t be that hard. Don’t hesitate to ask, though.

20

Famous violinist runs up out of the subway, jumps in a cab, and yells, “Quick! How do I get to Carnegie Hall!”
Cabbie turns around and says “Practice, practice, practice!”

I learned to solder by soldering 16 and 18 ga wires to chunks of old tin cans.

I learned to weather by buying old $1 junker cars at flea markets and weathering them.

Practice makes perfect. Clean iron, clean metal, small solder. It ain’t that difficult.