I find the effort of the BNSF police to keep you at a “safe distance” interesting. I am going to Galesburg tomorrow for their Railroad Days. When I was at that event a couple of years ago, several freight trains came from the north passing right along the Amtrak platforms. A BNSF officer was on site and made sure that people moved back from the edge of the platform, but there was no effort to move people off the platforms and behind the fence, let alone 50 feet back. Of course, most of the trains were moving maybe 10-15 MPH, but I remember one heading right out on the line toward Burlington was moving at a much faster clip.
I am assuming I will still get closeup views tomorrow.
Hi! I live in NJ and have police from CSX, NS, New Jersey Transit and several shortlines. An aquaintance of mine is a railroad police officer and I asked him one day what his authority is when not on railroad property. The answer: He is recognized as a New Jersey State trooper. He is certified by the state, goes through the same training and background checks,can carry a gun on or off duty 24/7, can issue motor vehicle tickets on any road or highway, can make arrests if someone is robbing a store or robbing a bank. Another thing to note is that he has jurisdiction in every state that his particular railroad operates and he has made arrests in states other than NJ. They are not only police officers when on RR property. Next time you guys see a railroad police officer, do yourself a favor and show respect just as you would to any other non-railroad police officer. They are the same thing. The only difference is that a railroad police officers salary is paid by the RR he works for, not the state he is in.
I have yet to be stopped by any type of police while railfanning. I have my Citizens for rail safety card that even if it is not a BNSF agent I will present if asked for ID.
Now it becomes interesting here. Engineer labs wrote that all BNSF locos are video-equipped. I applaud that, but now comes the big question: when all the locos are fitted with cameras why didn’t BNSF produce that material on the issues of the crash were the rr got convicted?
Incident that you are referring to occurred in 2003…I don’t believe the opportunity to video equip engines became available until approximately 2005. Video equipping locomotives is not a $200 upgrade so it takes corporate commitment to retrofit 2000-4000 engines…it also takes time to install the equipment. All the Class I carriers have programs in place to equip their fleets.
Ironically, I was over at East Dubuque and East Cabin this last Saturday for a bit; even went up to the area where the CN’s Iowa Division mainline splits off from the joint trackage and heads for the tunnel but never encountered any BNSF police this last Saturday. I’m guessing they were likely all congregated in and around Galesburg.
I wonder if the security guy in the New Haven station knew what he was talking about? I cannot imagine taking pictures inside a waiting room of a railroad station would pose a security threat compared to taking pictures on the station platform.
I spent the better part of last Saturday hanging around the Galesburg Amtrak platform and did not see a uniform all day. It is quite the event for getting up close and personal with freight and passenger trains. There were at least a half dozen car load trains, a couple of stacks and another half dozen or so coal trains, plus a unit train of ethanol tanks-empty we thought. There is a 5 foot fence along side the west platform with about 50 feet between there and the station building. While spectators were not asked to leave the platforms when trains were passing, I choose to stay on the station side of the fence.
The bus for the yard tour also went over the bridge over the yard. Normally, no parking or pedestrians are allowed on the bridge, except that the prohibitions are not enforced for Galesburg Railroad Days weekend.
THIS is what frost’s me. If these people were on PUBLIC PROPERTY the cops had NO RIGHT to question them! I don’t care what reports the cops had in the past. These people were being presumed guilty until they proved themselves innocent. It would be different if the cops were responding to a current call about trespassers matching their description who were on the tracks in the area where these people were standing. Additionally, these people had no reason to have to explain their reasons for being where the were.
Of course, we are only getting cnwfan51’s account of the episode, and I realize there are usually two sides to every story. However, if what cnwfan51 reports is accurate, then the cops definitely exceeded their authority.
Can somebody please tell me why american railroads need so many police?
Here in my country we don’t have special rr police at all, security is maintained by normal federal police, like anywhere else. Being a railfan, I am not aware that we are forbidden to make photos from anywere inside or outside a ry station. Of course, you are not allowed to walk on tracks, or immediately nearby, however there is no requirement of staying off 50 feet. Actually there are a lot of public walkways immediately alongside of tracks, perhaps only 15 to 20 ft away. Tracks are sometimes fenced off but not everywhere and there are sometimes inofficial footpath crossings over the track(s). Usually there is a sign “do not cross tracks” in some areas where it is considered very dangerous if people would do that, but I have never seen this being actually inforced. And I sure can’t say that we have so many accidents, I think that people who do trespass usually know exactly where to look for and heed.
I assume in Austria trespassing idiots who get hurt can’t turn around and sue for 7 figures. From what I understand about Europe, the law recognizes that people are adults.
Railroads really have very few police in comparison to the territory that each railroad covers. One of the primary functions of RR police is to provided security to the cargo’s that railroads carry and the schemes necessary to protect these cargo’s ‘on private property’ are not a routine concern of local authorities, just the same as apprehending shop lifters in a Wal-Mart is not the concern of local authorities. Once the law breakers have been identified and apprehended then the local legal system can take over for prosecution and trial.
Local police authorities have their hands full doing the police function in their own civilian areas, without taking on the function on the railroads private property.
In truth, there are far fewer railroad police today than there were 20/30 years ago.
I’ve never encountered a “bull” (to use the old slang term) that I knew of. Doesn’t mean I haven’t, but… I’d suspect that unless you hang around RR facilities a lot, or happen to be in an area where they’ve had some problems, most people won’t encounter them very often.
As was mentioned, they’re really more of a loss prevention agent - protecting the assets of the railroad and the goods it carries.
I think the perception of how many RR Police there are is skewed by the quickness of those who have had an encounter (good or bad) to answer up when such a topic is raised on the forum. Keep in mind, too, that those of us who hang around the tracks are certainly more likely have an encounter than those who don’t.
There are also the transit police - whose true function is ensuring that everybody who rides, pays. Other police actions are secondary.
Can somebody please tell me why american railroads need so many police?
To answer you question,To an outsider reading this forum,it may seem like there are a lot of RR Police but in actuality there are not ! RR Police are there to protect RR property and freight shipments…They work the yards and slow xings where tresspassers and transits and THEIVES are know to lurk and highjack freight shipments…If you hang around these places your going to be asked what your doing there, Count on it ! Keep in mind that photographing trains is not what the POLICE are going to believe,unless you are a died in the wool foamer,in possesion of a scanner,camera and wearing your favorite RRT-shirt and ball cap with all your RR pins on it…, In the aforementioned situation the RR police have "Probable Cause to stop and detain you for field interviews and if they dont believe you,you will either get arrested or get a ticket or both ! I wish you guys that harp on this would look at it from our point of view ! We’re just doing our job ! If Ive said it once Ive said it a 100 times,STAY OUT OF YARDS ! get out in the country to take your photos and you wont be bothered…[2c] I’ll get off my [soapbox] now…
This is a relic carried over from those heady days of the 19th Century when railroad was synonymous with power and they demanded and got from the legislatures of the states extraterritorial authority. This authority is badly outdated and in drastic need of repeal.
In Arizona Public Utility Companies–that’s Salt River Project and Arizona Public Service–have been granted the same authority and if you think that governmental law enforcement officers are abusive tangle with one of these turkeys sometime; with enough gumption you can fight city hall–it is impossible to fight these guys because the lines of authority are so convoluted that it even comes as a surprise to the legislators that SRP and APS security personnel have law enforcement authority. Unlike government agency police officers who are subject to constitutional restrains these what I call “private property cops” are subject to none of these restraints and there have been cases here in Arizona where they have actually broken down the doors on private property supposedly searching for stolen property and they don’t need a search warrant to do it.
It might be interesting to see how many railroad police officers there are PER TRACK MILE in the various countries…I will bet you in the U.S. it is very low compared with European nations.
In reading your description of the encounter w/ the rr bull, it most likely was a ‘rr patrolman’ and not a special agent. Agents are management positions cream-of-the-crop so to speak. Patrolmen are just that–union positions which pay at a much lower rate and are made up of many wannabe types who will do anything to make a name for themselves. A good friend of mine in MO lives directly across from the UP/Amtrk KC-STL line. He photographs & tapes trains quite often from his own front yard. He is just waiting at the bit when some member of the law takes exception to this. At some point it will happen somewhere, someday to someone and that will be so interesting once that hits the media.
Tell me, sir, how are they wannabes when they are actual law enforcement officers? Why would someone take exception to him filming form his property? Sounds like your good friend has a little attitude problem and is looking for a fight. The RR police we have here have tons of territory to cover and one hell of a dangerous job. Looking for thieves in the middle of a railroad yard in the dead of night has to be a little unnerving. Not like help is 3 minutes away.
It seems to me that the people who have a problem with railroad police doing their jobs are the ones who are caught where they don’t belong. Some railfans feel that railroads “owe them” because they are railfans and above all others. These police are doing their jobs. If they ask you to move, you move. I was on a bus trip to a RR facility. We were told by the RR police you may go up to the open gate, not go through it. One of these railfans on the trip marched right through the gate oblivious to everything. The result? Everyone was ordered back on the bus and the bus was escorted off the property. Come on people. You are railfans. you like trains. That doesn’t mean that railroads have to like you. I think they tolerate us quite nicely. Don’t blow it for everyone else.
