I’m using 5/8" plywood on 1X4s for an around the walls layout. Cinder block walls in the basement. What’s the better choice? Plastic concrete anchors or Tapcon concrete screws directly into the block? Or none of the above?
Thanks!
well are you screwing 1x4s directly to the wall or are you using brackets?
Im leaning toward screws myself but maybe somebody more knowledgable about these things will correct me.
I expect that either would work. Depending on the depth a brace at an angle underneath might be a good idea. Or maybe build up a wall out of 2x2s to give you something to nail to and to hang a backdrop from.
Plastic anchors should be fine. If you are anxious, you could go to 1/4" redheads.
I’m screwing directly into the wall, and will use 2X2 legs on the front side.
If I were going to drill directly into concrete blocks, I’d drill in the center of the block. That will put the screw or anchor into the center web of the block, which is the strongest part of the block. If you know the wall was built with FILLED concrete block, then it doesn’t matter where you put the screws or anchors.
Personally, I would avoid drilling into the blocks if I could. Even if they are concrete-filled, if they are below ground level, you run the risk of water seepage. It would cost more in lumber to build your layout without anchoring to the wall, but if the wall leaks, it will cost you a LOT more than the lumber to stop the water leakage.
Just my opinion, though. My basement is completely dry after spending $11,000 for a perimeter drainage system. And I’m STILL building my layout upstairs, ABOVE ground level!
Darrell, quiet…for now
I have had good luck using Tapcon screws, but anyone that has ever attempted to drill into concrete will tell you. A hammer drill and masonary bit is a must, with a regular drill you are just wasting your time. Also a Tapcon screw a semi-permanant, once its installed if you try to remove it at least half of the time the head will shear off.
Darrell has a good point about any possible problems. However if there was water within the cells of the block, you would have indications of leaks at mortor joints and the affected areas of the block would be wet. Why not just attach the rear(ledger) 1x4 only enough to laterally stabilize and stop movement and use rear support legs. This way you are not relying solely of anchors and can drill less holes.
One of the best anchors is the Hilti, but they require a perfect hole and proper depth. Tapcons would be the best choice and lead shields second. Whichever you use, you really need a rotohammer drill and an appropiate bit. If you use rear legs you could get away with the anchors spaced every 4 ft.
Bob K.
The center of the block may not be a web. Some blocks have three holes. Try to find a web for install anchors.
Thanks for the input. You guys are making me nervous. Additional info:
- I do have a good hammer drill and masonry bits.
- There is no hint of moisture anywhere on my walls.
- Part, but not all of the train room is on the “walk-out” end of the basement partially above ground.
As someone mentioned above Tapcon screws are very good. Yes, the concrete blocks require a hammer drill. The main advadtage of the Tapcon screws is the time saving aspect as well as the fact that I have never seen a (properly sized) Tapcon screw fail, I have seen plactic anchors pull out and Powder actuated nails shatter concrete.
As far as the moisture issue goes, if you had a moisture problem it would be evident without drilling into the inside of the concrete blocks.
Jack, my self I would go free standing and just have it againt the wall. Beides taking a chances latter having dampness problems.
I would like to be able to move the bench work if something need to be repaired rather it be the layout it self or the house.
My 2 cents worth.
Cuda Ken
I think Ken has a good point. What about putting a 2x2 or 2x4 ledge or lip (or are they called stringers - I don’t know) on the wall and then screwing your framework to that with legs for the front. If you need to pull it away from the wall, that would probably be a lot easier.
I haven’t done it myself, but I have a basement with cement walls that might become a train room someday and I’ve thought some about how I’d do an around-the-walls shelf layout down there.
I use a regular drill and Tapcons. Into both concrete block walls and the poured concrete floor in what used to be a garage that was well-built about 10 years ago. No trouble at all. If you’ve already got the hammer drill fine, but don’t go out and buy one unless a regular drill just won’t work.
And I’ve never seen one fail, either, Or be hard to remove.
About the only thing you’ve got to be careful of is, be sure to use ONLY the drill that comes with the package of screws.
To the issue of whether you really need a hammer drill for boring in concrete. As mentioned above, a standard drill will work. The problem is when the bit hits a larger stone in the concrete the regular drill cannot shatter it and continue drilling a clean hole. The bit will stop and/ or start to walk . If you have this happen, you can in a pinch, use an old masonry bit inserted in the hole and give it a few sharp hits with a hammer. This will work in most cases, but for proper anchoring a hammer drill does a perfect job. Many fasterers do need a very clean hole both in diameter and depth or they can fail.
Bob K.
Thanks for such detailed and useful feedback everyone. I have taken the advice given and used legs along the wall with just a few Tapcons to prevent lateral shift. It all went up beautifully, and I have my wall-rail completed around three walls. Next I’m painting some sky then completeing the benchwork.
Man, I’m having Fun[:D] Thanks again, and excuse me while I paint the sky!
Jack,
Thanks for the Yardoffice shareware, have been using it for a while now- it’s great.
Bob K.
Hey Bob, glad you like it. Quite a few guys around here tell me it’s useful.
What he said. Drilling into any basement concrete is asking for trouble. If you don’t have water/caving problems now, you’re providing an avenue to have them in the future, with every hole drilled.
p.s. Darrell, spent 10k myself on the same type system [:(]