You cna do the same thing with Digitrax. In fact, with one of the DT throttles it’s SUPER easy since the DT throttles actually are dual throttles and can have active control over two locos at once. On one knob, you have the consist, so you can control the speed and direction. On the other knob you have the sound boxcar so you cna activate the sounds
Or just create the consist using the boxcar’s address as the first ‘loco’ in the consist and it will get all function commands. This is where command station consisting is MUCH easier then CV19 consisting, there are absolutely no issues as to what functions work in CV19 consisting, and which loco gets those funcitons. CV19 consisting basically gives each decoder int he consist a different address (in CV19) and the decoders can be (in most cases) configured as to which functions operate in consist (ie, 2 sound locos, you probably don’t want both ringing bells and blowing horns, but you DO want engine and brake sounds from both). For decoders that support it, there are additional CVs to configure which, if any, functions operate in CV19 consisting mode.
CV19 consisting is a nice feature, but it is limited. If your tain or timetable numbers are all less than 127, you can use that number as the consist number, but CV19 is limited to values of 1-127. 129-255 is used for a loco that runs the opposite, way, say two diesels back to back. The lead unit heading forward would get CV19 set to 1, the second unit running reverse would have CV19 set to 129. Command station sonsisting does a lot more - at least with Digitrax you can even nest one consist inside another - say a three-unit consist on the front that picks up a 2-unit consist as helpers. You cna just add the 2 unit consist tot he original 3 unit consist to control all 5, then drop off the 2-unit consist at the top of the hill and continue on with your 3-unit consist.
Just a word of caution, the Zephyr only support Universal Consisting, also known as Old Style Consisting. But as Randy pointed out, you will be able to achieve all your goals with this type of consisting.
Also if radio is a future option, I would suggest you look into the Digitrax Super Chief. At 5a it might be a bit overkill for your needs but all type of consisting will be available to you. Beside, the cost of upgrading the Zephyr to radio with a DT400R, is only $100 less than the Super Chief Radio will cost you. Just a though.
The above refers to how CV19 consisting is limited with Digitrax, and to a certain degree (although not quite as much) with EasyDCC.
When you set up a decoder consist with NCE, the system prompts you for the lead and trailing loco numbers and then you refer to the decoder consist by the full 4-digit loco number of the end that is the front of the loco consist (if you pick the other end loco number, then that end automatically becomes the front). So while you can’t have more than 127 such consists, you are not limited with NCE to referrring to the consist by some artificial number, you can still refer to the consist with the full 4-digit loco number.
Very nice.
This sort of behavior is what I mean when I say NCE has added a lot of very useful features to support CV19 decoder consisting and make it really easy, and you get the benefit of also minimizing command traffic on the rails as well. This helps keep the throttle response snappy if you have a lot of loco consists in operation.
Lenz decoder consisting is not quite as nice as NCE’s, but it is still easier to do a decoder consist with Lenz than it is with a Digitrax system.
NCE, Lenz, and EasyDCC also support command station consisting and you can nest the consists. This will allow you to easily do some powerful consisting and deconsisting on the fly with locos similar to what Randy describes with nested command-station consists. Kind of the best of both worlds, IMO. Lower command traffic on the rails and flexible consisting options as well. [swg]
Every system has its pros and cons. Some want ‘easy pickens’ - Ie: someone else to decide ‘What’s best’ for YOU- based on what’s best for THEM?.
In that case, ONLY people who have had TWO (or more) different brands are qualified to offer 1st hand comparisons. Everybody, on the other hand has Opinions.
I tend to agree withe two learned gentlemen: Sievert’s reply to Tom Stage. Ie:
Bingo!
I don’t have DCC so MY opinions don’t matter. Joe Fugate, on the other hand …
Anyone wanting throttle MEMORY can have it, but probably won’t want to pay it’s additional cost. (Certainly most ‘starter sets’ won’t offer that decision). MAKE up A list of ‘what you wants’ = then a list of what ’ you’re willing to pay for’. That’s the list that counts.
I HAVE HAD 4 different DC throttles - so can offer comparisons - should anyone care. - (I thought not).
ALL throttles work. Right? Is my $400 one better than my $79.95? Yup! It has digital sound and variable momentum.
Don, on that basis hardly anyone is qualified to offer a comparison for this particular thread. The original question is about the Digitrax Zephyr and comparison of systems to it. As far as I know, Joe, whose opinions I respect greatly but don’t always agree with, does not own, nor has ever owned a Zephyr system. At least a bunch of us that chimed in, do in fact own the very system the originator was asking about.
I like this thread, well mannered, positive and informative I am learning some here.
Thanks Randy to point out the Zephyr does support CV19 consisting, I did look in the manuel and you are right. I must admit, I only looked into the manual when I first received my Zephyr and never consulted it afterward.
Yes, it is very helpful to see that Digitrax does natively support CV19 consisting.
However, Digitrax takes an all-or-nothing approach – either you do command station consists, or you do CV19 consists, but the system does not seamlessly handle both at the same time. NCE, Lenz, and EasyDCC allow both types of consisting from simple prompts on the command station and you can nest both types of consists (you have to use some trickery with EasyDCC, however), which is handy.
Unfortunately, setting Digitrax to default to CV19 decoder consisting will eliminate the ability for nesting consists, which severely limits the power of consisting, IMO.
The most flexible way to use Digitrax is to leave it at the default setting of command station consists and then plug CV19 by hand yourself directly for decoder consists. You will have to remember to add 128 to the consist number if you want the loco to run reverse when making up a decoder consist in this primitive fashion.
The Digitrax approach works, but it certainly qualifies as the least friendly of the consisting features across the big 4 systems. And the most friendly of the DCC systems with regards to consisting is clearly NCE, since it provides a rich feature set for dealing with either decoder-based or command station-based consists in any combination.
Thanks Joe for the input, obviously both you and Randy know much more about consisting then I do.
Now I know Digitrax has no restriction on the number of consist and number of locos in a Universal consist, why does NCE has limits on the number of loco a consist can have? I know MRC will only support 1 Universal consist, is there any limit with the Power Cab and Universal consisting?
With command station assisted consisting there is a limit. The DCS100 can simulataneously address up to 120 locos, this is the limit for a consist as well.
With simple consisting, which is just setting multiple locos to the same address, there is no limit with ANY system - just the absolute power capacity of your boosters
With CV19 consisting, there are only 127 possible values for CV19 so there is a limit with any system of 127 consists. With true CV19 consisting, againt here is no limit to the number of locos in a given consist other than the power fo your system, since all commands are being sent to a single address.
Any other limits are artificial and from the software design of the command station.
Prices are from Tony’s with no tax or shipping. There may be a few other small misc. items needed that I’m not aware of.
Of course you need to consider all the other differences in the systems, such as have been already pointed out on this thread. There is much to be considered and not just price alone. Remember that Zepher is 2.5 amps and PowerCab is 1.5 amps. Note that the UTR4 throttle does allow you to access all functions F0 - F12. And of course there are more powerful radio throttles available for both systems.
One other thing to consider is that the UTR4R can’t control DCC turnouts. I think that the 04P-R can but I’m not sure.
Please feel free to correct me if I’m in error on any of this as I don’t want to mislead anyone.
I don’t know if I am right, I am under the impression an SB3 is required to upgrade the Power Cab to radio. If so, an additional $108.00 (Tony’s price with power supply) has to be added to the cost therefore the total would be $513.00 roughly.
Please feel free to correct me also if I’m in error as I may be misleading here.
You may be right but I did call NCE and they specifically told me that the SB3 is not required. Didn’t get the name of the person I talked to but if anyone is seriously considering this they should probably call them also, or maybe call Tony’s Train Exchange and see what they say.