Something ive got to start thinking about soon is wether to use chicken wire or cardboard strips for the landscape/hills/mountains. Ive nearly finished track laying and after the wiring and testing is complete, itl be time for plaster!
While i know that cardboard strip is the prefered method, i dont relish the thought of cutting all that cardboard, its tough stuff and i’l need lots of it! I have a roll of that plastic coated chicken wire, is there any disadvantage in using this over cardboard? Iknow that any mistake and the following allteration maybe more difficult but things will be speeded up with the wire.
Alot of my landscape has to be hollow as it will have hidden track under it.
When you say chicken wire, what size openings are you talking about? (Where I am from, chicken wire openings can be from 1" to 3" wide. We call the smaller stuff “rat” wire.)
I ask, because you would have an issue with maintaining rigidity with the larger stuff, I would think.
I use both. Cardboard strips for small areas, chicken wire for larger ones. I’ve had the best luck with 2-inch, but that can vary depending on how big, or steep, or complex the shapes and how far apart the supports. When I get the shape right, I cover with heavy brown paper, then plaster cloth in most places, Sculptamold in others.
If you already have enough to use, I would encourage you to do so. As suggested earlier, it will need something below it, maybe plastic grocery bags filled with crumpled newspaper, to keep it in your preferred shape as you add heavy plaster. You will find that you need more plastic bags below it than you think. You will stuff what you can without hard jamming, and even then, there will be some sagging, at least over the longer spans.
In my recent experience, I used aluminium (British usage vs. N. American aluminum) window screen supported by the bags where the spans warranted it, and used Joe Fugate’s formula applied directly to the window screen. You’d think it would seep through and splatter everything below, but it did not…except for a few dirty water drops here and there.
The only disadvantages I can think of would be rust, and the possibility of blocking or absorbing the signals of any wireless command system that might be in use.
what we in the UK would call chicken wire they’d call rat wire.
I’ve never used it for scenery:-
the chickens get out
I prefer to use slabs of expanded polystyrene foam to rough out the hill and then form plaster on top of it. I’ve yet to meet any creature that will eat the foam - get the fire-resistant kind.
I’ve just got a 2’wide roll of Rayon mesh cloth with 1/8" holes that I’ll try stretched between formers… when I get round to it. Anyone here used Rayon?
I don’t know about radio control signals but I would have thought that chicken wire was definitely “old technology”. The stuff is a rat to fix and the support elements invite infestation.
No,no, chickenwire is chicken wire. I’ve never heard of rat wire. If you want to buy wire for a rat cage you get hardware cloth. Anyway the dude has got the chicken wire and he does’t really want to cut the strips,I’d say “use the wire”. He just has to use wood uprights here and there to staple down the wire. Wadded news paper or whatever is good too. All its gotta do is hold the shape til the plaster dries… The wadded paper always makes me worry little because of the flammability factor. Say you’re soldering or maybe a short. That paper will go off like a flashbulb.You could remove after the plaster hardens. Then theres that rosin paper method of Howard Zanes that just uses paper and glue.
Hmm, i dunno, granted its a pain to fix or alter if need be but its easy to construct[:D]. I was thinking the other day about cutting a million cardboard strips with a stanley knife and a rule, not good! Ok if you had a big chunky gillotene or summat i guess.
In an ideal world i’d like to use carved foam but thats out as ive got track under alot of it. I shall probebly end up giving the wire a go, supported with bags/news paper where i can. Ive also got plenty of L-girder joists to attach ply formers to also, this will go towards support for the wire.
I think the answer is to remove the paper as soon as the plaster compound sets up enough to support itself. I did this, and never had to worry about inadvertently setting anything on fire.
Also, the paper is best placed in a plastic bag. It will come away from the plaster much more easily.
I use chicken wire instead of cardboard strips to reduce smell. I’m in a Northeast basement with high humidity in summer. No paper is used wherever possible.
Disadvantages of chicken wire are cutting and reconnecting “sheets”, doubling-up (folding over) to get contours, and making drastic changes.
Can be a lot more work and bandaids (and might be a slower method).
I used aluminum window screen material instead of chicken wire. Disadvantages of either are
possiblity of setting up mysterious electrical shorts if the screen scrapes wires during install or touches the rails. A little care in watching what the screen and the staples touch takes care of this issue
possibility of reduced transmission of any radio control signals. Not really a factor unless the radio receivers are under or behind the screen. Mount the receiver near the front edge of the layout underneath and it should not be a factor. The wider chicken wire spacing will not cause as much of a problem as the window screen.
difficulty in drilling holes for trees or other items. Again, more of a factor for screen wire than chicken wire. However, Murphy’s Law says you will hit the wire when using your best drill bit.
difficulty in cutting openings for whatever reason, including mounting structures. You will need several blades for you Sawz All.
The smaller opening of the window screen practically eliminates any plaster (what I used) or other shell material falling. Didn’t really need to use paper towels. Also very easy to connect edges of screen wire - just fold the edges to a 90 degree angle and push into the adjoining mesh.
The screen or chicken wire gives inherently less rugged terrain than the plaster-soaked paper towels over cardboard strips - more of a rolling hills terrain instead of rugged mountains. You can get any terrain you want with any of the scenery methods you want. But each method most naturally simulates a specific terrain. Foam is easiest for flat or slightly undulating terrain (reduces carving), and for cliffs and buttes. Foam is also easier to plant trees into and cut buildings into. Traditional hard shell - paper towels dipped in plaster or similar - naturally gives a rugged terrain because it’s difficult to get the towels to lay
I used aluminum window screen material instead of chicken wire. Disadvantages of either are
possiblity of setting up mysterious electrical shorts if the screen scrapes wires during install or touches the rails. A little care in watching what the screen and the staples touch takes care of this issue
possibility of reduced transmission of any radio control signals. Not really a factor unless the radio receivers are under or behind the screen. Mount the receiver near the front edge of the layout underneath and it should not be a factor. The wider chicken wire spacing will not cause as much of a problem as the window screen.
difficulty in drilling holes for trees or other items. Again, more of a factor for screen wire than chicken wire. However, Murphy’s Law says you will hit the wire when using your best drill bit.
difficulty in cutting openings for whatever reason, including mounting structures. You will need several blades for you Sawz All.
The smaller opening of the window screen practically eliminates any plaster (what I used) or other shell material falling. Didn’t really need to use paper towels. Also very easy to connect edges of screen wire - just fold the edges to a 90 degree angle and push into the adjoining mesh.
The screen or chicken wire gives inherently less rugged terrain than the plaster-soaked paper towels over cardboard strips - more of a rolling hills terrain instead of rugged mountains. You can get any terrain you want with any of the scenery methods you want. But each method most naturally simulates a specific terrain. Foam is easiest for flat or slightly undulating terrain (reduces carving), and for cliffs and buttes. Foam is also easier to plant trees into and cut buildings into. Traditional hard shell - paper towels dipped in plaster or similar - naturally gives a rugged terrain because it’s difficult to
larger hardware stores like home depot and lowes both sell a foamboard-like material. I believe home depot has the common “pink foam” that you may have seen used by other modelors. A recent price check indicates a price of about 10 bucks for a 1 inch by 2x8 foot.
You are correct, and your pics show that. But you used “plaster-soaked paper towels” over the wire. The plaster-soaked paper towels naturally produce a rougher terrain because of the difficulty (at least to me) in keeping the towels from folding and wrinkling during application. In the case of straight plaster over window screen (no paper towels), the initial plaster coat will be much smoother.
My point was that any terrain can be built from any of the scenery methods with additional layers and/or work. But the easiest way to get rough terrain from the get-go is with plaster soaked towels over a support system. Foam produces a relatively flat (not necessarily level), smooth surface with almost no effort. And plaster directly on window screen, cheese cloth, or plaster impregnated cloth naturally produces an in between terrain on the first couple of coats. Again, additional layers or work will allow one to create any desired terrain in any of the mediums.
Thanks for all your input guys, i reckon its going to be a trial and error job!
I used the wire on my old layout and it worked well but this time the terain will be leaning against the mountanous variety. Il just have to see how it pans out when the time comes!
I should stay away from this because I am sure that my response is going to get beaten to death.
I do not use either one - I did encounter plaster-over-screen in the club I belonged to in Massachusetts in the mid-'60s. I have never used cardboard strips and I am not even sure that I have ever seen cardboard strip scenery.
I use good old fashioned Linn Westcott hardshell - I tack cardboard to the underside of my framework, then I pile on clumped up newspaper and when I have the shape I want I lightly wet the contour and build up a hardshell with Hydrocal® soaked industrial strength paper towels. Works for me!
Okay, I don’t know how to build switches and I don’t know how to build scenery!!! So what else is new???