Picked up a NOS Proto 2000 B&O GP 7 last week. While it is a well detailed engine, it does not look right. There is no yellow band around the base of the engine. At the roof line of the engine there is a light gray band that none of the other B&O’s I have?
All of the center gears are cracked and I am thinking about taking it back for a refund. I do know how to replace the gears with Athearn gears, done it more than a few times. Not sure I want to repair yet another new engine.
Cuda Ken
Color photo of 3400. Looks like same paint scheme.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_bo3400.jpg
Check out photos on the site. Your other locos are likely latter simplified schemes.
Ken,
As per the photos linked above, the original B&O GP7’s were delivered in the blue and grey paint scheme with a black letter band outlined in gold - grey stripe around the bottom, and black roof/top.
The various all blue schemes with yellow lettering and yellow stripes did not appear until after the 1965 ownership takeover by the C&O.
In the 50’s and early 60’s virtually all B&O diesels were painted in schemes similar to the blue/grey/black with gold lettering commonly seen on EMD F units and ALCO FA/FB units.
Those early GP7’s in the blue/grey/black and with the air tanks on the roof were steam generator equipped for passenger service.
How much did you pay for it? Sell it to me…
Sheldon
While I think that a buyer should be prepared to fix the cracked gear issue anytime they buy a vintage LL Proto GP unit, on the flip side, any hobby store dealing in NOS LL Proto GP units shold be well aware of the problem and should have personally replaced the gears by now. I mean, what is the value added by the middle man retailer if its not for repairing an easily fixable and well known problem that occurred in the factory about 20 years ago? Sheez
So I can see your frustration about getting a refund. (but i think you should keep it and just replace the gears yourself).
Greetings Ken,
A B&O Geep with the Grey band ( and I’d assume black roof) would be a passenger unit. Normally their freight duty hood units and switchers were solid blue with a yellow frame stripe and a narrow yellow stripe high on the hood. They did have a few SD (9’s I think) with steam generators but these had the freight colors as well and only rarely saw passenger service. All caB units were delivered in the blue/grey/black colors regardless of service.
B&O engines all looked exceptionally attractive, at least to me. Even when cab units lost their grey band but kept their striping they looked pretty sharp.
The colour photo of #3400 that DSchmitt posted is a really good example of what moderate weathering should look like.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_bo3400.jpg
Dave
I should have been more specific in my post - I was refering to the orginal batch of GP7’s, which all came in the blue/grey/black scheme.
Later hood hood unit road locomotives did come in the simplified blue scheme, but the original batch did not loose the blue/grey/black scheme until the C&O take over.
Some cab units saw a breif period with a simplified black band paint scheme - loosing the grey - many stayed blue/grey/black until the solid blue/yellow lettering “B&O” schemes.
Fact remains - Ken, the loco is correctly painted…
Sheldon
Last 2 out of 3 Protos B&O I have fixed the center gears. Right now I have 5 engines on the RIP track, questions is do I want a 6th one?
In the past K-10 Model Trains have given me the gears and I have installed them. Last GP 30 gave me fits, hurt my fingers installing them. I may ask if K-10 will install the gears this time around.
Sheldon I paid $69.99 plus tax, not a steal yet not over priced. I will let you know what I do.
Thanks for all the answers folks.
Ken
Thats about $30.00 more than I consider a fair price for a non-operable “new” locomotive. I would take it back. Granted the repair is an easy one, but a LHS should NEVER sell a unit like that. And some people wonder why the brick and mortor shops are disappearing!
Opinions vary…
Ken, I would gladly take it at that price…I have drawer full of geared axle sets…
Just for the record, I have fixed most of mine with complete new axles from Lifelike/Walthers and never had a replacement fail. Once Lifelike fixed the problem, the replacement parts and future runs were fine.
Sheldon
Well…
If anyone is really interested, I came across the B&O 3400 at Streamlined Back Shops for $75. +
http://store.sbs4dcc.com/HOLife-LikeProto2000GP7-TTBandO3400.aspx
I would email and be sure they really have it. Ask about the gears, too.
SBS is a pretty reputable seller.
Regards, Ed
Seems to me I saw them at them at Timonium $60-70. The guy I remember having a B&O had them at $65 and said make me an offer I want to get rid of them. As a newbie wanting to get into DCC, I didn’t need to add more DC engines to the roster
They are easy to convert to DCC with simple drop in decoders - takes more tiem to get the shell off and on that to install the decoders.
I have all 4 road numebrs they released for Reading, plus a spare. The horrible quality couplers have to coem off and get real Kadees, and I didn;t even bother waiting for the cracked gear to show up, I just swapped them all out before putting the loco in service. I will also say I didn’t pay more than $40 for any of them - the first one I got a Timonium the guy had $25 marked on it and I wasn’t even going to argue but when I handed it to him, he said “gimme $20 and it’s good”. This was right after Walthers said no more freebie wheelsets without proof of purchase, so I bet the cracked gear “issue” drove prices down - but it is such a simple and easy fix, I’ll take an originally $100 MSRP loco for $20-$25 and put 10 minutes and $3 worth of Athearn parts in it any day, every day.
–Randy
I’m going to get off my caboose and install one to get over the hump. Also need to complete benchwork, lay track and buy a DCC system, but that is beside the point.
I watched a youtube vid yesterday and they guy used the plastic caps that go over the connections, because he didn’t have soldering equipment??!!! He taped everything up with wads of gooey electrical tape.
Now to my question: If I buy one at the next Timonium show, do I just go to the Athearn website to find the wheelsets I need.
Yeah, I wasn’t looking to name the LHS and don’t mean to bash any business trying to make a living and one with a good reputation like K-10 has had over the years. I just don’t undertand why any LHS wouldn’t just pop in the gears on a NOS loco themselves instead of risking irritating a customer. You’re proof of that.
There’s a bit of misinformation here.
First, it is my understanding that B&O’s SD units did not have steam generators. If this is not the case, then I’d be very interested in having the correct information.
B&O Passenger GP7’s were delivered in the blue, black, gray, and dulux scheme, and had the roof mounted air tanks and no dynamic brakes. They were delivered as numbers 740-746, and renumbered 3400-3406 on January 1, 1957.
Passenger GP9’s were also delivered in the blue, black, gray, and dulux scheme, and also had roof mounted air tanks and no dynamic brakes. They were delivered as numbers 747-752, and became 3407-3412 on January 1, 1957.
Freight GP7’s were delivered in solid blue with dulux lettering and striping, and were very plain units without dynamic brakes or roof air tanks. There were two groups. The first group was 910-922, renumbered to 6400-6412 on January 1, 1957. The second group was 720-731, renumbered to 6413-6424 on January 1, 1957.
Freight GP9’s were delivered in solid blue with dulux lettering and striping. They resembled the freight GP7’s except that they had dynamic brakes. The first ones were delivered as numbers 675-696 (6425-6446 on January 1, 1957). During 1956, additional engines 6447-6510 were added to the roster without ever having had three digit numbers.
Tom
Tom,
let me dig up that edition of the Sentinel that covered B&O’s early SD units. One of them was used on the Pittsburg-Buffalo passenger train (was that 251,252-can’t recall tight off) for a while and I’ve heard on a few commuter runs as well. A story goes thst the road wanted to get rid of the Buffalo train and pulled off the SD because it was saving too much money. Not sure if that’s true but it does make sense.
I just ordered direct. It’s just the gears, part number ATH-60024. They’re for the Athearn SD40-2, but are the right ones for the Proto 2000 Geeps, which use an Athearn clone drive. You also need an NMRA gauge to set the wheels properly - they DON’T just get pushed in as far as they can go. Since the gear sets are for a 6 axle loco, 2 packs will do 3 Geeps. I bought enough to replace mine plus a few extras in case I aquire more - since my prototype paint scheme is pretty easy to do (no fancy stripes or anything), I can always pick up an Undec or even another road and strip it and repaint. So I have gears on hand to fix them before they break - if you get one and it works fine out of the box and has not had the gears replaced, it WILL fail eventually. So I just replace them all and not worry. Good opportunity to clean old grease out of the gears and apply a proper quantity of a better quality product.
–Randy
