Got a question…Is there such a thing as an official, licensed, bonified, or whatever appraiser of model trains? I appraised HO brass for years, but I have no official license or qualification other than my 50 years of collecting and selling.
As we are approaching older age, our familes will be soon (hopefully not too soon) left with selling our toys. There are of course many ways to sell trains, but to have a basic or rudementary knowledge of values would be most helpful, and certainly worth a professional fee.
As an alternative to an appraisal, I would tell folks to get several bids from sellers and then just interpolate, but of course this was for wholesale pricing. I would then figure for plastic, add 75% for retail value and roughly 50% to a dealers bid to get a fair retail or street value. But I was just shooting from my hip with this.
I’m no longer appraising brass as a question of ethics comes into view, be it that I have no offical license.
A single, official one? Never heard of any and frankly, I don’t think this is a perfect science.
Generally speaking, the value of something is based on: 1) the condition of the object; 2) the value of replacing the object new; and 3) how much people are willing to pay for it. Of course, 3 is pretty much the bottom line, and the easy way of getting this is to ask folks that are specialized in the resale of used items. There are 2 or 3 well known ones… Looking at Ebay would be futile in my opinion given how each piece is so unique when they are on the used market. And the range of prices I have seen is astonishing. My rule of thumb for valuing just about anything used is 25% of new price, if in good condition and if sold by an intermediary. Then it goes up to 40% to 50% if I sell it myself. But there are always exceptions. If you can find that buyer that REALLY wants that item, then you can get a better price for it. But that is only found by either luck, or being patient.
As someone else here said, my thoughts, your choices.
I’m a couple of days away from 81 and I’ve started an Excel spread sheet on my locomotives so that someone can sell them on eBay. The spreadsheets include an eBay listing for each locomotive with pictures. I’m including a good description with both features as well as deficiencies.
As most of you know I do Mel mods on everything so I will include a full description in the listing as well as printed CAD drawings of my wiring changes that will be included with each locomotive.
I’m also putting an estimated eBay price of what I expect would be the going price for each locomotive. I’ve been a good eBayer for the last 10 or so years and I think I can come pretty close to what each one will sell for.
I did a test run in May and I came pretty close on the selling price, it actually sold for a few buck higher than I expected.
I’m suggesting that my wife contact one of the local clubs to get rid of my 10’ x 14’ layout built on casters, should be easy to move.
The state of Maryland hasn’t figured out how to create a bureaucracy around model railroading appraisals, so there is no license. There is a national organization of appraisers, but their focus is on real estate, maybe businesses, but model trains are way too small a market to expect a routine appraiser to have any specific knowledge.
I’ve been to several auctions in Towson for various things. They sell a lot of oriental rugs and their “estimates” before sale are 50 to 100% too high. The also auction a certain collectable, that I can’t mention here, but is mentioned in the Bill of Rights and they barely have a clue as to what they are selling.
The also auction Lionel trains from time to time, but I don’t have a clue there, so I have no idea if their estimates are accurate.
I believe there are actually 2 very legitimate prices that an item may be valued at.
1- Value for insurance in the case of a fire or water or theft. We can always point to the catalog price of when we bought it and use that as the guide. I’m going through this right now after a water leak took out one of my Bachmann On30, DCC 2-4-4-2’s. The adjuster had no idea of prices of trains so this verification has proved helpful.
2-The second price is the market or street value of an item. This can be a bit quirky as there are E-Bay prices,train show prices, and estate sales. As others have said it may be as low as 10 to 40% of your original price. The problem with an estate sale is that the survivor knows that the original owner paid, let’s say $500 for that brass loco, and it must be worth a whole lot more now, when actually it might be a lot less than the original price.
A few years ago there was a “Brown Book” that listed values of various brass engines. I’ll bet that there isn’t one price in that book close to any value of items in today’s market. So if you want to get some idea of todays values keep checking the various sale venues and get some sort of ballpark price and go from there.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. As mentioned I have done appraisals in HO brass, but I never really felt comfortable doing this as I felt that some kind of professional rating should be required.
Sure there are sources for brass such as the ongoing on-line Brasstrains.com guide. But like me, these folks get thier data from sales experience and watching what item sells for on auction sites and from other dealers. When I did appraisals, I tried to make the path rather than follow what others were claiming. I’d rate model for quality, runability, condition of model and box, rarity, and whether any custom features added or hurt value. Of course I knew original MSRP, number made, and reputations of both importer and builder.
But today, brass is no longer mainstream, and the bulk of what comes on the used market is plastic. I have seen so many times families left with a serious mess of trains and fall victim to offers from dealers…well let’s say not the most honest. On line auctions such as eBay, Stout, Maurer, etc. are somtimes a fair barometer of what model is worth, but not always accurate.
Presently I’m doing what most old dinosaurs like me should be doing…making a list of everything with suggstions of current wholesale and retail values. This will sure be a help for my wife and kids when I’m gone.
I knew a fellow who had a huge accumuation of brass, but he lied to his wife for years about what he spent…like $200 for a Tenshodo Big Boy, etc. When he finally passed, she let around 600 locos go for what she thought they were worth. It is too painful for me to put in writing what she was paid for the collection…but the point I feel is well made.
That’s a great idea Mel. Think of it as a form of estate planning. If your accumulation is large, it would be worth at least a few thousand dollars and worth your time to help who ever deals with it have the option of selling it off if they want. They may have the time to pack it up and ship it. Maybe they won’t, and will just sell it bulk or throw it out, but at least you gave them an option.
There won’t be an official liscense for train appraisers. The market is too small. Those folks on antiques road show have some sort of credentials backing their estimates of old things and odd collectibles, but I think they just watch the market and tell the seller what the last similar item went for at auction.
Howard could probably do just as good of a job estimating the value of brass trains as anybody else.
But the market matters. There is a difference in finding two buyers who want the itme you’re selling it at the time you’re selling it, and trying to sell the item when the limited market is silent.
Whichever way you look at the issue, the value of our trains is what people are willing to pay for in the event of a sale. This is in turn depending on the supply/demand situation and not on any “appraised” value.
Supply and demand will most likely diverge quite dramatically within the next few years. As model railroaders are becoming of age, more and more collections will hit the market, while the number of potential buyers is stagnating - at best. However, let´s not get into the “hobby is dying” rut here. The hobby is changing and therefore a shift in attractiveness will take place.
How to support those who have to deal with what we leave behind? I think RRMel has given the best answer. Make a lit of your possessions, including a photo, a description, any modification you´ve made, what you paid for and what your current estimation of a sales price is. You heirs will undoubtedly shake their heads in either disbelief or anger when they find out how much you had spent on your hobby, but they will develop a feeling for the value attached, which will guide their decision. Nothing more, but nothing less.
What does an “appraisal” mean anyway? Sure it will tell you if you have something of real value or not, but the dollar figure is not worth all that much - unless the appraiser offers to buy the item for that amount.
IMO, if you want an idea of an MR items worth, check out Ebay sales. That will give you real world cash value, and not an overly opptimistic “catalog number”.
Remember, MR items are not “one of a kind” like works of art. So the value of the item is similar to what others of its kind have sold for…
And of course we all know, that any dealer will not give you “market value”, for they will resell it and of course must make a profit. So getting 50-60 percent of “market value” from a dealer/reseller is pretty much the norm.
Speaking of value - older folks in my country still remember the dire times following WW II, when people traded mink coats, oriental rugs and diamond jewellery for a handful of potatoes.
I recently sold my collection of BB and Roundhouse cars and several unwanted BB and Athearn RTR engines to a train show dealer and got a four digit lot price…
Howard, I don’t see any problem if you continue to do appraisals as long as the client is advised up front that you are not licensed, because there is no licensing authority, and you also put it in writing, assuming that you put the appraisal in writing.
I had this very issue come up with my aunt. My uncle had been a model railroader and even though he had basically sold off his collection over the years, she still had some passenger cars that she offered me, gratis. I declined because I don’t run passenger trains. Then she asked how she could get an idea about the value of the cars. I told her if she could access a model railroad club in her area, then there would probably be somone(s) who had enough experience to give her an idea of what the cars were worth.
As with art, I buy trains for their entertainment value, not their monetary value. Because I have left my train collection for my 19 year old cousin (since he is a Lionel guy) I can’t be bothered with what he will do with the HO part of my collection once I go.
Our families will soon be parting out our stuff!?!?!?! How can they do this to me? What backstabbers, parting off my railroad stuff soon before I have even finished school! I have put good money into that! Why so soon? This is awful! I can’t believe that as I approach 25 they would dare to begin parting off my stuff! SOON to! Those jerks!!!
Oh wait…
[8D] I think I’ll be showing myself to the door now before my bad attempt at humor backfires… [:P]