Anyone assemble an Arbour models steam engine, especially a smaller one like a 4-6-0? Would you say it was harder or easier than a MDC or Bowser kit? Any serious pitfalls? How easy was it to get the mechanism running smoothly? - Nevin
Nevin:
Are the kits still available? I have heard that the older Arbour models suffered from impurities in the castings which gave them âzinc rotâ, and were extremely difficult to get working properly. I seem to remember a poster on the forum several years ago who was attempting to put an older model together and it fell apart on him.
Youâd probably be much safer going with an older MDC âharrimanâ style 4-6-0. With additional detail castings, you could probably get a pretty decent Tonopah and Tidewater look-alike model. Plus, the MDC shorty Vandy tender that comes with it can be modeled either with a coal or an oil bunker simply by reversing the tender top casting.
Tom [:)]
The dies are owned by Bowser; Bowser got them from a company called Master Creations; Master Creations got them from Arbour Models. I believe I have all the machinations of ownership correct but if there is some kind of error in my chronology please bring it to myâand the readershipsâattention.
I had never heard about these models experiencing zinc contamination until I encountered it here on the forum; along about 1979 or 1980 I ask my local to order an H8. He informed me that I didnât really want to buy one and there was a guy in the hobby shop at that time who substantiated that opinion. As such I never ordered anything from the company but I understand that they had frames which were more crenalated than the spine of the rockies and boilers which could not be made to fit their frames.
There was another manufacturer attempting to penetrate the die-cast kit market at this same time: TLCâThe Locomotive Company. They, so I have been told, put out a considerably better productâall smaller steam if I recallâbut they fell under the same suspicions as Arbour Models and folded about the same time.
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Iâve never seen an Arbour kit myself, but I hear they were very hit and miss. Some of the things I remember hearing about are poor-fitting soft metal parts, crumbling wheel centers, and very difficult assembly. If you can find an alternative from Bowser, MDC/Roundhouse, or Mantua/Tyco, Iâd recommend getting it instead. Those are all brands that assemble well, run smoothly, and last pretty much forever. All of my Bowsers run great, the two Mantuas Iâve had experince with are pretty nice, and my MDC 2-8-0 is a great kit too.[:D]
I bought several Arbour parts way back when, and at the time I thought they pretty good quality items for the price. They still sit in boxes with the various âsomedayâ projects for which they were intended. I have not checked them for zinc rot, a phenomenon I remember well from the trucks on my Penn Line trainset freight cars and the entire truck housing on my Varney F3. Imagine cast metal with the structural integrity of a saltine cracker!
Anyway the word on the street back when the Arbour kits were new was that the parts just did not fit together as neatly as the Bowser, Penn Line, MDC, Mantua, and Varney kits that folks were accustomed to. It is one thing to have to learn to drill and tap your own screw holes in white metal â it is another to have to do so right next to where an unusable drilled hole already exists. You had to plug that hole then drill your new one, and people got very frustrated. And white metal can only be forced so far before it snaps.
I also seem to recall complaints about chill marks on large expanses of flat castings such as tender sides and cabs. All in all I am not too surprised that Bowser never reissued the line as kits but I am kind of surprised that they never issued some of the more interesting details parts as a supplement to their CalScale and Selley offerings. They may yet do that I suppose.
Dave Nelson
My interest in the Arbour models kits is that the Sylvania Central 4-6-0 looks close to a number of T&T prototypes. I have previously heard about problems with their big engines but not the little ones. I remember the Locomotive Company engines when they came out. They looked very nice. I wish I bought a couple at the time. I wonder who owns their dies. All of these engines pop up on Ebay every once in a while. I may grab one just to see if there is anything that can be done with them. - Nevin
CAUTION: MEANDERINGS FROM AN OLD BRAIN THAT RESIDES IN A BODY THAT NEVER OWNED AN ARBOUR MODEL.
I donât think the Arbour Models products were zinc alloy; I think they were something softer. I would suspect the dies were not steel (necessary, I think, for the zinc alloys)âperhaps brass or aluminum. I think they also made such important structural items as side rods out of the âspecial metalâ. I sure hope someone who actually built one pipes up; they sure made a very big (and short) splash when they were introduced. Sorta like GSB SD40-2âs.
Ed
Below is a link to more information about Arbour models. Plenty of reading.
Rich
In trying to find out if there is such a thing as âzinc-cadmium alloyâ (doesnât appear to be), I found this really interesting article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest
Familiar? Now we have a name for it.
This is also interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak
Ed
I seem to recall my Arbour H6 2-6-6-6 having some type of soft metal side rods and valve gear, never did get around to assembling it, as I recall even the driver centers were out of true, being of the same soft metal the observation of which soured me against their products.
Dave
Based on looking at an Arbour Models 4-4-0 locomotive kit in-person, Iâd describe them as definitely more challenging to build than an MDC kit. The smaller Arbour locomotives feature the same materials (such as soft metal side rods and metal plated plastic drivers) and construction methods that have caused people problems when building the larger Arbour locomotive kits. Unlike an MDC kit, with an Arbour model one needs to be prepared to do things such as fine tuning the axle slots in the frame to get the right clearance while maintaining proper alignment between all axles.
I may be in the minority here, but I own one of every Arbour Models manufactured. (I have three of the 2-6-6-6 H8 Alleghenies, all running beautifully) Please take into consideration that these kits are over thirty years old. They were not die cast but cast on a centrifugal casting machine in silicon molds. The metal used was a zinc-cadmium alloy know as Nye-600. This metal has absolutely no similarities with Zamac from the 1940âs. The issues with Zamac were resolved in the industry in the early 1960âs. These kits were also not marketed to the âgeneralâ modeler. They were marketed to the âcraftsmanâ modeler. They bore no similarities to Bowser, MDC or even the older Varney kits. You have to do a lot of the filing, fitting, tapping and assembling on these kits. When you do, you end up with prize winning models that will run forever with the proper maintenance. I spent over 2 years building my first H-8 (the next two were easier as I learned from my mistakes) Donât get me wrong, there were problems with the kits as you would expect from any new company, but as the company grew the quality improved. Most of the locomotives had reviews written on them in either MR or RMC and from what I can remember all of the reviews were very positive for these kits as they offered a new outlet for the serious craftsman modeler. If anyone has a questions about a particular kit, please feel free to respond and I can offer what ever assistance that I can. (As to my experience I have designed and built models and attractions for Walt Disney Imagineering for the past 30 years)
http://www.qtm.net/dinwitty/rr/rr1.html
click on the abour/winton link
I recall someone bought the kit, tried it and threw it in the trash.
I am building a Winton and Arbour at the same time, on hold for now, but will resume the progress with pics.
I found a built one on ebay and it runs very nice, and I complimented the seller/builder on a good job. I have heard stories about someone trest runing theires only to have parts falling off the drive rods etc.
The built one I have runs very well bench tested, and some road testing, but I have to work on the tender/engine connection.
So far it doent show effects of metal aging like Zamac. My Rivarossi Berkshire I have owned for years is no longer operable because the weight/frame inside expanded, and the motor mount is broken. I have long replaced it with 2 LifeLikes and brass one, no loss.
If you are going to tackle the kit, be ready for craftsman kit building, not for the squeamish. The kit is an answer for someone who wants to own such a large engine but not pay the big brass bucks. Thats what kits were for.
I found no reference to âNye-600â on the Internet, but I did find the comment below when I searched for info on zinc-cadmium alloys:
Cadmium-zinc solders are used to join aluminum to itself and to other metals. They are suitable for applications where service temperatures may reach 400°F or higher.
on this site:
http://machinedesign.com/BDE/FASTENING/bdefj1/bdefj1_3.html
It looks like this alloy might have been appropriate for casting in silicone rubber molds based on its relatively low melt temperature. Silicone rubber molds are generally accepting of 400 degrees.
Ed
I just joined, and seen this thread. I have to add my input, I just bought an Arbour Models H-8, and its not made of any of the materials listed here. Its actually made from Antimony Alloy, which is solderable and it is soft.
HOWEVER if handled correctly, it will make into a VERY nice locomotive.
I had forgotten all about this particular thread until now ⌠but in the meantime not only has Bowser not brought out the Arbour line but they have discontinued their own steam locomotive kits and RTR â to general lamentation on this forum and elsewhere.
Dave Nelson
Good Morning,
I am the former owner of Arbour Models 1969 - 1983. There has been much speculation over the years regarding the metals used in the production of our kits. Perhaps I can finally set the story straight.
We purchased the masters of the Allegheny H-8 from a bankrupt Winton Models. These kits were produced in the lost wax brass casting method. We considered continuing with this method for production but the model railroading market at that time (early '70âs) did not warrant a need for a brass loco kit. The method of manufacture would have created a kit that would have had to retail for over $500. At that time $500 would purchase a beautifully made, R-T-R brass loco such as a Hallmark from Bobbie Hall.
After 2 years of testing and over 50 build up samples both in lost wax and in white metal, the decision was made to produce these kits in a zinc-cadmium compound called Nye-600. This metal was nothing like the early zinc-cadmium attempts from the 1930âs. The formulas had been strengthened and the material was widely utilized in the jewelry fabrication industry. (Avon was one of our largest clients)
The first H-8 made from new masters and molds (our molding process was a centrifugal spin casting method) was unveiled at the 1974 NMRA Convention in San Diego, although the model was only static. We were trying to gauge interest in the MRR Community for a loco of this size. It was very well received.
The following year in Dayton we unveiled a working test loco on a Peerless reversing track and the crowds packed our booth. From there about six months later the first H-8, Kit #101-100 was sold to a Michael Cipley of Camillus, New York. Michael built the kit and had the kit running on his layout until the day he passed away in 2006.
We were a small family business with roots in the printing industry from the early 1700âs. Our founder, Holme Martin loved model railroading and started Arbour Models as a division.
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Since I was the person who started this thread in 2009 I wanted to thank you for adding your comments. It is always helpful when the manufacturer of a particular set of kits is able to add their comments to a discussion.
As for me, I acquired one of these kits and plan on building it next year. Iâve built these kinds of kits in the past so I wonât find it too daunting. Take your time and donât file too much at a time is my motto! - Nevin
Currently building the Arbour Sylvania Central. Had built the H8 back in the early 1980s.
Very Very difficult kit. Castings poorly done. Drivers very poor quality plastic centers with splines . They are out of quarter but cannot be quartered because the splines on the axle force the plastic centers to their original out of quarter position. May have to make new axles out of NWSL stock.
Side rods, crossheads, guides all out of the same soft cast white metal holes imprecise.
Impossible to get binds out of mechanism.
Boiler and tender castings lots of flash and fit imprecise.
Be ready to do lots and lots of filir and harng.
The wood cab is only printed on basswood sheet and must be cut out with a dremel VERY CAREFULLY SHould have made the cab out of brass sheet or styrene at least there would not have been grain to contned with.
Impossible!.
SPEAK OF THE DEVIL!![:O]
Arbour Models is being restarted soon![:D] I wonder if theyâll reintroduce their steam engine kits? I hope so, because I WANT KITS!!!