One of the advantages of the horn hook coupler was that it gave manufacturers a standard low cost coupler to include with low cost kits. If you didn’t like them you could replace with KD’s. But if you couldn’t afford KD’s (and metal wheels) you could still build and run cars.
Paul
From what I remember reading in the past, even though the horn hooks were supposed to be “standard”, each manufacturer used their own opinions as to what the tolerences should be. Therefore the “standard” couplers did not necessarily work well with each other.
And remembering my days as a kid when I used them, it was differing coupler height that presented most of the problems, not the horn hook couplers themselves. In addition to being mostly truck mounted (and too light), all of those manufacturers seemed to make cars that had slightly different height’s so cars might not couple or uncouple properly, or came uncoupled over track undulations. For me, they always worked just fine in MDC and Athearn BB cars where the coupler boxes were at a consistent height, so I can certainly see how somebody might not care to swap them out even today.
Paul,IIRC it wasn’t the cost because my first KDs cost around 95 cents a pack and since the X2F worked we spent money on Central Valley trucks so our cars could roll smoother. Then smooth running Athearn BB trucks began to edge out CVs as replacements and in the late 60s there was another change of direction-KD couplers was fast becoming the defacto standard coupler by choice. Metal wheels wasn’t all that important since there was more important changes such as moving from brass to nickel silver track.
The 60s seen a lot of changes in the hobby and overall it was a exciting time due to the amount of better running models especially the brass steam engines since steam still ruled the modeler’s roost in the 60s.
Larry,
For me starting in the early 70’s, just buying a couple of locomotives, some cars and Atlas buildings was all I could afford to start. Once I had a 4x8 layout built with brass track and wired for 2 train operation, then I could start upgrading.
Paul
Uh, since when is using a screw driver hands-off?
Hands off uncoupling with X2F is funny since the ramps was crappy at best. The screwdriver was the best method for uncoupling cars while switching industries and yards.
The only true hands off uncoupling was and still is using KD couplers with magnets but,using magnets seems to be frown on by the experts and their followers.
You certainly don’t sound at all sorry and frankly no one now much cares about how tough it was then.
The model railroad world is a very very different place today, but there are still plenty of things to tinker with for those that want to follow that particular aspect of the hobby.
There is simply no merit in struggling with components that are not well suited for purpose, if there are better choices readily available.
That is an interesting comment, but I don’t believe I understand it clearly as it relates to couplers. Can you explain how you define better?
Ever think how much knowledge I gain from those experiences? Sure,the hobby change for the better from those growing experiences…Even the highly detailed P2K locomotives came from years of requesting better models.
Or do you think it was done by the manufacturers out of the goodness of their hearts?
We made the KD the de facto standard coupler because it gave hands free uncoupling and we no longer had to leave our stool at the control panel just to uncouple cars at a industry nor did we no longer need to stand while doing yard switching…You stood because you had to uncouple the cars. 48 years later and I still use magnets for hands free uncoupling.
Software tools:
You are extremely dismissive, not to mention insulting, of the past experience of Brakie and others with much more experience than you seem to have. It would be very easy for us old timers to just ignore questions that are naive, or to which the answers seem obvious to us. Instead, we generally try to help with the best information we have, and the most relevant experience. Accept it or ignore it. That’s your choice. But try not to be insulting as you go your merry, ignorant way.
Thank you.
Tom
There seems to be a pattern of those lately…
I disliked X2F couplers appearance, so I went with Kadee’s. No operational issues, so not changing now. The cheap clones however…
I fully agree but,my only problem is some time the knuckle spring goes missing while other couplers retain their springs for decades.
I’ve started adding a small tiny tab of ACC on the springs holder before I insert the spring into the knuckle and that should end the fly aways.
The only clone I use is Walthers Protomax II since its all metal and works as well as the KD so,I found no justifiable reason for a change out.
YES!
Horn hook couplers are much more forgiving vertically. Once you get them coupled, they never uncouple, no matter what the grade. I can’t say the same for Kadees. Having said that, I’ve switched to using Kadees because everything I buy has kadee or kadee compatible.
Larry, back in the stone age when I was using Kadee K-type couplers, the fix for fly-away springs was a dab of contact cement (Pliobond in those days) on one of the mounting nubs, usually not the one on the knuckle. The advantage over ca is that it stays pliable and is thick enough that it can’t accidentally run in between the moving parts and seize-up the works.
Wayne
But you can say the same since Kadee began offering shelf type couplers like those installed on real tank cars. [;)]
Kadee makes shelf type couplers now which should mitigate the vertical issue and keep cars coupled in situations where your track work isn’t up to par and cars tend to come uncoupled due to mismatches or couplers not being installed to match the Kadee height gauge.
I really didn’t have an agrument one way or the other on the functionality of the X2f’s. I started in scale modeling in the early 90’s and, yes, kits were still being supplied with X2f’s back then, but for me, it was how realistic a coupler looked, not really how it worked. Because of that, I was immediately sold on the KD’s. In 1993, when I started collecting HO equipment, I also subscribed to MR and other popular model railroading press. Even back then, there were still models pictured that had X2f couplers on them. To me, that was like someone running their fingernails across a black board. In my mind, it simply ruined the look of a fine model.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not criticizing anyone who uses X2f’s; It’s their railroad. I’m sure that anyone who ever saw my railroad would see features that they may not like to have on their layouts as well.
Well said. Your reply definitely fits into the question posed at the start: “Are horn hooks really that bad”. Even if you can get them to work well enough, and some have argued that they can, they look nothing like a real coupler.
Lets face it. One thing about model trains which is important to us is how they look. Otherwise you could use a bar of soap and put it on flanged wheels. It is so important to some that they go as far as to install fine scale wheels and Seargent coupelers, which both look the most realistic in HO scale.
Not all of us go that far, but we do want the couplers to look similar to real couplers, to which most of us, I think can agree, that horn hook couplers do not look similar to real couplers. Even as a young teen, it bothered me as I could clearly see at that tender age horn hook couplers looked nothing like real couplers, never mind if you can get them to work well or not.
For for me, that is why I argue that yes, horn hook couplers “are that bad”, yes. I realize for some, looks don’t matter; thats their choice of course. For me, it’s Kadee (and I"ll accept Walthers Proto metal couplers too).
Those are excellent points. They highlight the difference between your situation and the situation the OP described.
You are looking at the photograph of the end of a car, where there isn’t much to see…but you have a lot of time to see it. The OP was watching an entire train of moving cars, where you see the sides not the ends, and don’t have the time to stare down the couplers. He didn’t even notice the couplers until they were pointed out.
Personally, when there is a train of cars, to me the couplers in between the cars look like black horizontal blobs with two black verticle thingys sticking down, whether or not they are knuckles or x2f’s. But all things considered, more realism is always desired over less, when available.
Spending time collecting models to display and comparing them to static photgraphs of the protoype for fidelity mistakes is only one way to enjoy the hobby. And many comments come from that perspective.
I’ll give another example