Might seem like a dumb question but, Seems like 6-axle power is all that is being produced (new) (Prototype). Is the only option for 4-axle power rebuilds? I am talking about GP60’s, Dash 8-40B’s etc. I want (need) to add some new 4-axle power on my Central States, I am modeling present day. I have currently GP35’s, 38’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, as well as GE U28B, 30B’s and even some F3’s and 7’s on the roster. If I want new (Prototype) 4-axle power, are there any?
Don’t get me wrong, I really like the SD70’s and Dash 9’s but hardly practical for industrial switching on the local.
Am I missing something? What is the prototype going to do, keep rebuilding the geeps? I can’t see an SD70MAC switching out the local refinery.
The BNSF here in Tulsa is using GP38’s, 50’s, 60’s etc and sometimes SD40-2’s for the locals.
They are not buying them becuase, outside of passenger engines, they are not being made. The last frieght 4 axle produced in the US was the GP60 and the sales of this locomotive were dismal. Only NS, Santa Fe and Rio Grande bought them. The GP50’s sales were not that great either. As the locomotives get older railroads will probably just re-moter the engines that still have good frames but, there is a little more to the story.
Class ones are continuing to sell, lease and spin off their light density lines to short line railroads. This means class ones have fewer and fewer needs for 4 axle locomotives. Since class ones are the only ones that can afford to buy new locomotives in bulk and since the need for 4 axle power is declining for class ones, the chances are getting slimer and slimer that we will see any new 4 axle power for a long time.
All that being said, there is a 4 axle locomotive being built for railroads today. The Green Goat, which was covered in the January Model Railroader. This is basically a hybrid locomotive that looks to be the wave of the future but like any new idea on the railroad, it will take a LONG time before this becomes popular. Remember it took diesels almost 20 years to take over American railroads from Steam.
Here is another point to consider. I recall reading that ATSF GP60s could not carry a full fuel load due to the axle load limitations of their track. Since the short lines are not likely to use heavier rail than the class 1’s, they might still prefer six axle locomotives over 4-axel locomotives. Back when individual units had non-turbocharged engines rated at 2000 hp or less, six axle engines were offered because they had lighter axle loadings than the four axle engines. Their higher starting tractive effort was not their only selling point.
I think it was the ATSF GP60M’s that had the axle loading situation. The safety cab was so heavy that they came with small fuel tanks, and even then they were too heavy.
Another reason that there are no 4-axle locomotives in production is that there is a glut of good used GP38’s and 40’s on the market that cost a whole lot less than a new one, even if you do have to rebuild it.
In addition, the success of EMD’s radial trucks and, to a lesser extent, GE’s radial trucks have widened the operating range of large 6-axle locomotives thus reducing the need for separate fleets of smaller locomotives.
With the execption of passenger units, and only MPI is currents producing them, no main-line 4 axles units are currently be produced. Today’s 6 axle radial trucks are just as light on the rail as the 4 axles, and you can only put so much horsepower on the rail with a 4 axle. 3500 to 3800 horsepower is the limit.
With the abundence of rebuildable GP38s and 40s, 4 axles are long from dead.
Remember that part of the reason for the long switchover time was restrictions placed on railroads during WW2. In fact, dieselization had begun in the late 1920s as an experiment, and would have been complete industry wide by the early 1940s had not WW2 occurred.
While some roads held out longer than others - for a variety of reasons - individual roads dieselized quite quickly - the majority of the change taking only a few years. Witness Canadian National in Southern Ontario. Almost completely steam powered in the mid 1950s, by 1959 there were no steamers in regular service (some were still “stored servicable” at that point, but were never called back into duty).
Railroads in the end are businesses, and only continue money losing practices at the risk of their bottom line.
Having said that, I hope the Green Goat catches on!
I wondered the same question myself a few days ago. I think the last 4-axle produced by EMD was the GP60M. It was also prouduced as a B unit (GP60B). Santa Fe was the only one who ordered the GP60B (23 whch are now in service w/ BNSF)
It is unlikely that any more GE Genesis series locomotives as we know them will be built, as their bodies do not conform to the new crash strength regulations imposed on passenger equipment.
The Genesis series is not longer be produced due to new passenger equipment crash worthiness regulations. With Motive Power Industries new passenger loco in production, it’s unlikely either EMD or GE will produce any new passenger equipment.
Actually, jcmark611, the Green Goat is a rebuild! The body is a very cut-down Geep, so in a way it’s not only “green” because of the hybrid diesel-electric engine, but because the engine frame is recycled!
I have a feeling that we’ll see Geeps on the rails for a L-O-N-G time…on the order of the middle of this century–although they will certainly go through some changes under the hood!
The Genesis locos are no longer in production. That much is true.
I may be wrong as to whether or not GE is going to build any Evolution series passenger locomotives. Demand for passenger locos is weak, and MPI is the current favorite for the commuter market.
Thanks for all the input. I guess I will continue to build up my fleet of GP38’s (I really like this engine, don’t know why). 2000hp seems adaquate for and engine on the local. The GP50’s and 60’s will remain in either local or road service. Now about that road engine fleet…
The days of new 4 axle units are done. I work for CP and can tell you that most of the older stuff Has come out of road sevice. The new ES44AC are arriving, it started with the AC4400. Most of the local transfers (Road Switchers) in Vancouver is done by pairs of the 3000series (GP38/GP38-2 rebuilds) or 5700series (SD40-2) for the heavy stuff (Grain/Potash/Sulphur). I expect to see the 1500/1600 belt-pac equipped GP9 (old and well worn) start to dissapear soon, as the green goats start to arrive.
Green goats are built on recycled GP9 or B23-7 rolling chassis, with new body and power. Supposedly the Goats are quick to load and pull really well (compared to the tired GP9), info from one of the senior yardmen who got to try one during the testing for yard switching.
Four axle units tend to operate on low mileage runs, so they last longer and are more likely to be rebuilt. Several class 1 carriers are using greatly modified GP30’s and GP35’s in low horse service. These units are 40+ years old. On the other hand the high mileage 6 axle road units wear out relatively more quickly. Its hard to find a straight SD40 anymore or an SD45. Even the “standard” 2nd generation road engine, the SD40-2 is becoming more scarce on class 1 carriers.
With the high recycleability of the low horse 4 axles, and the huge available pool of 2nd hand units out there, there just isn’t any market for new low horse engines. Probably in 20 years or so when they start running out of parts sources and the units become uneconomical to rebuild or environmental laws won’t permit them to be operated you’ll see a movement to buy new 4 axle power.
