Athearn Amtrak Surfliner passenger cars

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I received a mail where Horizon Hobby is announce the release of the Surfliner Cars.

They are selling single cars and a set of 5 cars.

Luckily I was sitting behind my computer when I saw the price for the set of 5 cars with sound and light; $799.99 and a single car with sound and light $199.99.

And the 5 set car with only lights is $699.99 and a single car $149.99.

I think this is a lot of money for passenger cars.

And if you do not want the sound and lights because you do not want to spend that money, you have no choice; the option is sound and light or only light the other option is not possible: cars without those electronic gimmick.

I can understand that some model railroaders are asking to have sound and lights on board of passenger cars and are willing to pay a certain amount for that gimmick but I think that a lot of model railroaders do not need or want those expensive gimmicks.

I think with that kind of prices for model trains in the future that many model railroaders will give up their hobby or that you do not attract some youngster into the hobby of model railroading.

2

Marketing people are generally not train people. A lighted passenger car could still be under $100. I have no idea why anyone would need passenger cars with sound.

3

I understand that it seems like a lot of money and that prices are getting very high.

Understand this, those prices will be discounted by most retailers about 20%, making the per car price more like $120, still pricey.

But don’t think for one minute any company in this industry is just raising prices to be greedy.

They know higher prices will cost them sales.

BUT, contrary to what some will tell you, in a niche hobby like this, prices are driven primarily by the cost of production plus the minimum reasonable profit to stay in business.

Seldom in the whole history of this hobby has a manufacturer been able to make a product at such a low production cost that they could add in extra markup and still sell lots of product.

Production costs are up, here, China, it does not matter, they are up.

This has never been an inexpensive hobby, and if you study economics and understand inflation, if you go back several decades or longer and adjust those prices, you will see how prices to day are similar to prices years ago.

The 1990’s and early 2000’s was actually a time with some of the lowest prices ever in this hobby - adjusted for inflation.

Yes, prices are on the rise, but are still likely similar to pervious decades in adjusted cost.

The young people argument I will not get into, other than to say there are lots of lower cost products, new and used.

Sheldon

4

I agree with you 100%.

$140 for a passenger car is ridiculous. Even discounted to $120 is absurb.

If no one bought any, it would teach Horizon a lesson. At least make the lighting and sound optional.

Rich

5

And this only what seems to be weeks since the last jeremiad about ‘no cars to go with the F59s’…

Cab cars have horns. Wheels click. Doors open and close with noise and alert chimes.

And yes, toilets flush. That perhaps is just a bit too much realism. Helpfully absent is cab or commuter chatter… something I will confess I’d be tempted to allow users to program… [}:)]

On the other hand, even for normal discount off that $799, I’d expect actual door opening and closing to go with the whooshing sound of them opening and closing. Perhaps that will be the next cool programmable MTH-style toy feature…

6

Yes, maybe it would teach them

7

As we have all lost sight of the fact that we generally view these models at distances equal to 300 feet or more…

As I drive past the Aberdeen MD AMTRAK station, less that 100’ off US 40, even in nice weather with my windows down, I can’t hear any of those noises.

One can barely hear the trains… OK, horns yes.

Sheldon

8

But, here’s the thing, Sheldon. The OP doesn’t want lights and sound. Maybe someone else is nuts enough to pay $120 to 140 for such luxury, but not everyone is nuts and not everyone wants lights and sound in a passenger car. Make it optional.

As the OP said, with those kind of prices for model trains, in the future many model railroaders will give up their hobby and you will not attract youngsters into the hobby.

Rich

9

As with any hobby or sport, you can control your costs. I rarely purchase new stuff because I just do not have the income to do so. I purchase what I need to do what I want to do with the hobby. Sometimes that means a long project of refurbishing old Blue Box or Yellow Box locos, etc. I love the hobby and the high prices will not chase me away - because I know I can do a lot of stuff without paying a lot of money. And I’ve been doing that since I was a young boy in the hobby.

Yes new passenger cars are expensive, yet I tried to sell some older passenger cars on Ebay and was surprised at how little I sold them for. Bargains are out there. If someone really wants to be in the hobby, they find the way to do it.

10

People will spend what they want to spend and manufactures will charge what they want to charge. Presumably Horizon Hobby has done their homework and has enough evidence or faith that folks are going to plop down that much cash for a car (or set of cars) with lights or sound & lights. I can’t imagine what sound would be necessary coming from a passenger train to make me want to pay the additional cost for that feature.

I purchased the 5-car set of MTH 20th Century Limited cars when they came out in early 2013 and MSRP for those was roughly $95 per car. The detailing was very good and the super cap lighting module was fantastic. I eventually purchased the remaining sets to complete the full 10-car set for less than MSRP. Worth every penny (to me) and they look great. They don’t make any sound other than the clickity-clack from the metal wheels and that’s good enough for me.

Tom

11

Rich, I’m not disgreeing with any of that. I am just a market observer, especially considering two facts, I have most of what I want, and I have experiance in this industry.

First problem - one group of modelers/collectors demands these high detail, high cost models. many others are less picky. But you see how some of us “less picky” modelers get treated on here sometimes…

Second problem - as time marches forward, there are are more prototypes to make models of without a proportional increase in consumers. This means lower sales per sku, which means higher production costs.

Third problem - too many sku’s raises production cost and increases dead inventory risk - that’s why fewer and fewer undecorated models about which I am not happy.

I just know this, adjusted for inflation $30 box cars are not expensive, they are the $10 box cars from 40 years ago. I bought lots of those $10 box cars and thought he price was fine.

I remember $2 blue Box kits, but Athearn had the lowest prices becuase they did the most volume and cranked out the same stuff year after year.

The market will not settle for that today, just like you did not warm up to generic shorty passenger cars when I asked that question.

Companies like Bachmann try to find the middle road, and take a lot of heat from the rivet counters… and Athearn still sells a lot of upgraded Blue box items at more reasonable pric

12

Walthers Passenger Train of the Year was announced today. The PRR “The General”

There is going to be a deluxe edition with 13 cars and 120 figures, as well as LED lighting

There is also going to be a 12 X29b box car + caboose freight car set.

Prices were not mentioned in the video but they must think someone has a lot of money to spend and a big enough layout.

The first half of the video is the contest winners and it’s worth a look because there is some really nice work.

13

My first reply to this thread was to agree with the OP that manufacturers are loading up their models with unnecessary luxuries and charging outrageous prices. They offer no option to purchase a model without these unnecessary luxuries. In the long term, and maybe even the short term, they are driving modelers out of the hobby and discouraging newcomers. The purpose of this reply is to continue to agree with the OP.

Rich

14

Heck, I can’t hear those sounds when I’m on the platform at L’Enfant Plaza and the only sound you can hear is the idling MP36PH-3Cs.

15

This thread reminds me of the time not so many years ago when I lobbied Jason at Rapido to produce a version of the Monon streamlined passenger car. When it came out, the MSRP was $85. Now, I was in the market for a 6 passenger car consist. Yikes, that would have cost me $510. And the only car in that consist would have been a coach because that is all that Rapido produced. No diner, no sleeper, no baggage, just the coach. So, I took a pass.

Rich

16

Then he/she should not buy them. There is no reason Athearn needs to make a model for everyone. Just because you think they are nuts to pay $120 for a car means nothing. I think someone is nuts for not getting lighting on a car that had it in real life. Different strokes for different folks.

Oh please. There are plenty of cheaper models out there. When I was young, you could settle for Model Power, Bachmann or Tyco toys. You could take a step up to Athearn blue box, or a bigger step up to Atlas/Proto2000. Or you could leap up to brass. Nothing is different here. This is a high end model, of a prototype that was limited to operation in one state and less than a 100 total were built. Most likely a small market for Athearn.

17

I don’t have any $100 RTR passenger cars. I do have Branchline kits which were not “inexpensive”.

But here is an interesting illustration from the past.

Going way back, Walthers sold passenger car kits made of wood floors and roofs, stamped metal sides and die cast metal ends. In later years they came with plastic roofs. The cars had prototype accurate lengths and window arrangements and the selection was pretty good.

This Ebay listing will give those of you not familiar some idea:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384273938870?hash=item597882f9b6:g:accAAOSweExg7hvG

The prices on the boxes in the Ebay listing reflect what I remember from the early 70’s.

Not exactly sure when these came on the market, 1940"s? But they were a staple thru my early days in the hobby and were finally discontinued in 1982/1983.

The 1983 Walthers catalog contains the last few that remained available.

The kit was basic, less trucks and couplers, no diaphragms, interiors or lighting. But all those things could be purchased in separate kits to make a more detailed model.

Here is a typical cost breakdown to build one heavyweight passenger car from the 1983 Walthers catalog:

Car kit - $15.00

Die cast trucks - $8.00 (better Central Valley sprung trucks were even more)

Interior kit - $6.50

Diaphragms - $1.40

Deluxe four bulb tubular lighting kit - $9.00

Kadee couplers (2 pr) - $2.55

Total - $42.45

I built a few, but generally the idea of a whole fleet was a lot of building and a lot of money.

Interestingly, when you put $42.45 from 1983 into the inflation calulator, today that is $115.80

If you wanted accuracy and detail then, kits like this or brass were the two choices.

At that same time the Athearn blue Box passenger cars were $5.50, or about $15 tod

18

Most of the replies fail to acknowledge the basic premise of the OP’s initial post. It is not a rant. It is a well stated disappointment over the outrageous pricing of the Amtrak Surfliner passenger car. Athearn (Horizon) could have produced a portion of the cars with sound and lighting optional, but it chose not to.

I don’t know much of anything about the Amtrak Surfliner passenger car, but it does appear that at one time Walthers produced a more basic model with an MSRP of $70. Each individual modeler will decide for himself what is “reasonable”, but to my mind, $70 seems right while $140 seems wrong.

A lot of the replies quickly race to the defense of the poor manufacturer who can barely make ends meet. Do you really believe that? Or, do you subscribe to my school of thought that the model railroading manufacturers have a captive audience of 55 to 85 year old males who have the discretionary funds to to cave to the manufacturers if they want a model bad enough?

I hearken back to my example of the Rapido Monon Coach with an MSRP of $85. I wanted it. Could I afford it? Sure, but I set a sensible limit and did without it because a 6 car set of coaches would have set me back $510. So, I did without them. Recently, a single Rapido Monon coach (NIB) sold on eBay for $300 - - supply and demand.

Yeah, I think someone is nuts to spend outrageous amounts for model railroad cars, but to each his own.

Rich

19

Pretty much this ^

I imagine Athearn will sell out of the Surfliner cars; those who want them enough will find a way to buy them. The rest will complain about the high prices. As the Mandalorian says “This is the way”.

It hasn’t e

20

Its a characteristic of a niche market with limited players, or of a larger market that’s controlled. Its really apparent with products that have anything to do with electronics.

More features, even if you never asked for them.

What producers offer as product is becoming less demand-based. JMO. I think its more about having limited access to a relatively small number of production facilities/processes that are highly managed. While the space is yours for the next few months, its best to go for the high margin during that limited window.

Maybe someday we’ll only be able to choose golf clubs that have built in software that automatically tracks the number of mis-hits you make, and if its a slice or a hook.