All of the diesel locos on my current layout are Athearn Blue Box 4-axle units (F7, GP9 and S12) of various vintages. Only one is new enough to have nickel silver wheels installed. I would like to replace all of the old sintered iron wheels but nobody seems to have the correct replacement wheels (40" by .110") in stock or even a scheduled availability date. NWSL does have bright finish 42" by .110" wheels in stock for both the older outside frame and newer inside frame trucks. According to the NWSL website, installing the 42" wheels would raise the locos about .011". Does anyone have any experience using the 42" wheels in trucks originally fitted with 40" wheels? Did you run into any problems?
I am also considering remotoring these locos using the Kato HM5 can motor. Has anyone made such a conversion and what problems will I likely encounter? Will I need shaft adapter bushings, new flywheels and/or new universal couplings? How should I mount the Kato motor in the Athearn frame?
Finally, I recently purchased another Blue Box GP9 new in the box for $20. I need to purchase a DCC decoder before I can add this loco to my fleet. All of my diesel locos are currently equipped with inexpensive fleet decoders but I was considering buying a sound decoder for this loco. However, I can’t justify spending $100 for a sound decoder to put in a $20 loco. I can purchase Digitrax or MRC motor control and sound decoders for around $40 right now. I haven’t heard too many positive things about either brand although I haven’t seen what I would call any objective reviews – mostly just rants and bashing.
I currently have MRC 1627 steam sound decoders installed in my MDC steamers and I’m okay with their (admittedly basic) sound qualities. Would any of the current “budget” offerings provide motor control and sound quality at least as good as these old MRC decoders?
I can attest that you will be very happy with the performance of these decoders. They do include the speaker also. It takes a normal 8 ohm speaker instead of a hard to find 32 ohm speaker the Digitrax needs.
Thanks Pete. I was not aware that Greenway made wheels other than drivers for steamers. I’m still on the fence about the sound decoder though even $80 is a bit high when you consider that the loco was only $20.
I believe the standard wheels on that engine is a 42". The 40" has always been a popular swap because it matches the prototype. Which is why they are now out of stock.
So, if you do have 42" (verify with a caliper) the 42" replacement would be the same. The only difference between the wheel diameters is a slight coupler height change. The 42" are 0.022 larger diameter which is the 0.011 difference in height you mentioned.
I have changed from 42" to 40" several times without any problems.
[quote user=“hornblower”]
I am also considering remotoring these locos using the Kato HM5 can motor. Has anyone made such a conversion and what problems will I likely encounter? Will I need shaft adapter bushings, new flywheels and/or new universal couplings? How should I mount the Kato motor in the Athearn frame?
If these locos are new enough to have the seperate plastic sideframes you can buy replacement nickel silver wheel sets from Athearn and they are 42"dia.If they are the older metal trucks NWSL is probly your best bet for wheels.Price wise thev Athearn wheel sets are the better deal as they are complete wheel/axle-gear-wheel/axle.
I started out with MRC sound decoders, mostly due to their cost. I have been upgrading to Tsunamis, but to be fair, I have never blown an MRC, and I have maybe 10 of them in various locos. It is almost impossible to reduce the volumes. You can program to your hearts content, and the volume will always be deafening. The motor control is OK at best. A couple seem to lose their address while running around the layout, and have to have their addresses renewed. But they were cheap, and included the speaker, and they do work. And a $40 decoder in a $20 loco makes more sense than a $100 decoder. Try one or two, and see for yourself. You won’t have a lot of money at stake. You can get your foot in the door with DCC and sound, and upgrade later.
I have had several MRC sound decoders, both steam and diesel in service for several years. I often install the diesel decoders in a dummy unit and use a separate decoder for motor control in a powered unit and run it paired with the dummy.
The only failure I have ever had was with a factory installed MRC decoder in an Athearn Challenger.
The MRC motor control is adequate, not great, adequate. Since I do very little low speed operating they haven posed any problem for me.
At around $45 each the MRC decoders are just about the only real bargain left since Soundtraxx discontinued their LC line.
My Athearn blue box F7 has been a part of my fleet for many many years. The only changes made to it , other than extra detail, was to replace the sintered wheel sets and install a Soundtraxx sound decoder. Its performance is on par with my Kato and Atlas diesels and has never disappointed me in any way.
My Blue Box locos are of various vintage so some have the metal outside frames (bronze bearings outside the wheels) while others have the plastic sideframes (bronze bearings between the wheels and the gear tube). One loco is new enough to have NS wheels from Athearn. All others have sinterred iron wheels. I measured the wheel tread diameter at .460" which according to NWSL is in fact a 40" wheel (the 42" wheel is .482"). I can buy 40" NS wheelsets with gear tubes direct from Athearn for the locos with plastic sideframes but they no longer have wheels for the older metal sideframe units. NWSL has only 42" NS wheels left in stock. Greenway has 40" NS wheels in stock but they do not specify whether they fit the outside or inside style frames.
I assume from the previous responses that I will indeed need to buy shaft adaptor bushings or new flywheels to convert to the Kato motor. The Athearn motors run pretty smoothly. They just draw a lot of current which causes the wheel treads to blacken from micro-arcing after relatively short periods of use even on squeaky clean track. I clean the wheels by spinning them on alcohol soaked paper towels. Once clean, they are good for another 20 to 30 minutes of use at which point they begin to stutter, slow and eventually stop with nicely blackened wheel treads. On the other hand, my MDC steamers draw so little current that I rarely have to clean their wheels. The MDC locos will glide around the layout at 10 to 20 smph for hours without a stutter. I thought maybe new wheels and a more efficient motor might reduce the micro-arcing and increase the operating time of the Athearn locos. Maybe I should just convert one loco and see what happens.
All of these are 1st runs, 2nd run locos are slightly higher but run the same. I’ve got several of these Geeps, and have run them fo the last 20 years with NO issues. They are deathly quiet , and smooth as glass. The one disadvantage is that they have scale width hoods. If you have any Athearn or Walthers GP9s, they will start to look funny by comparison.
My recommendation? Sell the BB Geep for what you can, put that toward a better Geep. That fixes the issues with amp draw in itself. Then, when the budget allows you can go for sound. With a better Geep you may feel better about spending money on sound.
IMHO, Putting sound in a BB geep is like putting lipstick on a pig…[:-^]
I buy from Model Railcraft Supply online store in Maryland. They have the wheels, Kato motors, drive line components and the most friendly sales guy (Jeff) in the business. I’ve done about 10 loco’s so far, both 4 and 6 axle types. Try them out. The newer drivelines with the nylon worm gear are significantly quieter that the brass version. One problem is they require the hex flywheels and the dogbone drive shaft, not the round original Athearn drive line.
My layout occupies half of my garage, I clean my track about four times a year, but only clean engine wheels once a year and don’t seem to havethe problems that Hornblower mentions. Interesting…
For what it’s worth, I have also remotored several old Athearn BB locos using both the 40 and 42 wheels and premium motors. My favorite decoder is a ESU LokSound 3.5 or 4.0.
Yes, I spent a lot of money and time on my old engines. But, it was fun! I enjoy seeing my old custom painted BB locos experiencing their new life. [:D]
Thanks for all your input people. It sounds like I may want to rethink this project. Maybe I’ll start with the wheel replacement and see what happens.
I have spent a lot of time repainting and detailing these locos so I don’t really want to replace them with others. I know that similar locos are available RTR but I converted one of my Baldwin S12 locos to a Pacific Electric unit with trolley poles. Buying a RTR version from Bowser would cost a lot more than upgrading the loco I already have. Besides, I could not point to the Bowser/Stewart loco and say, “I did that.”
Instead of replacing the Atheran motors have you given the thought of tuning them up? I have some thirty odd year old BB locos with decoders that run great. Replacement wheels is a given but those old motors can be cleaned, commutators polished and brush springs shortened. While your at it shim those worm gears from too much fore and aft movement. Google Athearn tune up and see what others are doing too.
Or better deals, Proto 2000 Geeps. All mine were under $40 on ebay or at train shows. OK so you need tpo spend an extra $5 on Athearn axle gears to replace the cracked ones. The P2K models are even better detailed than the Atlas, and run very well. With people wanting Blue Box Athaersns, you cna probably get as much if not more for them than the cost of the Atlas or P2K replacement.
Nice thing about Proto 2000 and Atlas Geeps, the hoods are 6" too wide.
Digitrax has new sound decoders now, 16 bit instead of 8 bit sound. Superior in every way to MRC, but still priced below Loksound and Tsunami. Seen them for between $55 and $60. Personally I wouldn;t use anything but Loksound in diesels these days, but if you’re on a tight budget…
This was written by John Shaw, and Bill Anderson, and can be found on the NMRA web site. Number 1, if you have an older Athearn that has the dark blue/gray colored motor, replace it with a new “gold / yellow” colored one. They draw a lot less amps than the older dark ones. After the tune-up in the article, if your still not happy with the way it runs, than I would move on, and look for an up-grade like Atlas, Proto 2000, or Spectrum, all which can be found at decent prices.
Most of the noise in an Athearn is from the older splined drive shafts and the worm gear on the trucks. The “newer” versions with the solid drive shafts and the “dog bone” style connections seem to be alot quieter. Also, a missing "thrust"washer where the drive shafts meshes with the truck worm gear can also make alot of noise, and cause “jerky” movements. I have lots of BB locos, and I test the draw on each one, and any that draw more than 3/4 to 1 amp ( 1 amp being the tops, 1/2 amp being the best) will not be a candidate for a decoder.
Good luck with all advise you have recieved from a lot of experienced guys!
Oh true! In all the commotion about Atlas I forgot these myself. Great runners, once you replace the gears!
[-)][%-)]Randy,[-)],Its the Athearns & Walthers Trainline Geeps that are too wide,not the Atlas, Proto or (here’s an oldie) Front Range/trains unlimited Geeps! [:D]
Funny, the 1st few years I was in the hobby, I had a load of Athearn geeps. Once they started getting mixed with scale width hoods, it started buggin me, so I sold them off.