Athearn Blue Box Prototypes

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I have several Athearn freight cars and wonder if they have a specific prototype or are a ‘composite’ of several designs:

  • 40’ Box Car - It appears to be based on an ‘Improved 1937 AAR’ design
  • 50’ Flat Car - Most fish belly flats seem to be 50’ 6" - This one is sort of short, and has that side mounted brake wheel.
  • Single Dome Tank Car - I have heard that this is close to an SP car, just the dome is too low. While we are at it, what about the ‘Triple Dome’ and the ‘Chemical’ Tank Cars.
  • 40’ Steel & Wood Reefers.
  • 50’ Gondola

I suspect that they may have SP or AT&SF history as well. I stripped a 50’ gondola, added metal steps and grabs - Now I am at a loss what to paint/decal it for.

Jim

2

Unfortunately the bulk of the “Blue Box” series tooling dates from the 1950’s and suffers from little research. One can guess that the designers pulled some drawings from some of the “Cyclopedia” publications or such. The folks who made the masters were obviously not real familiar with what they were trying to represent. Have you ever noticed that most of the underframes for the “house” cars (boxcar, stock car, reefer" usually have the brake gear in mirror image? That’s because someone looked at a drawing of the car that was drawn as if looking DOWN through the car and put the parts thinking they were looking UP at the underside of the car!

Anyway, there have been articles over the years trying to guess what the Athearn freight cars represented.

Boxcar - AAR type car, apparently the 10’6" height, but the end corners are closer to the early “square” type versus the “rounded” corners that were more common by the time that 10’6" became a common height.

Stock car - very close to UP S-40-12 or S-40-13 classes but the roof panels are “mirror imaged”

Single dome tanker - simply the three-dome car with two domes removed - that’s why the remaing dome is so small proportional to the car. The underframe is typical for General American production, and the tank is close to the 12, 500 gal size range.

Steel reefer - PFE R-40-23 class ice reefer

Wood reefer - PFE R-40-24 rebuilt wood-sided reefer

Gondola - too short for most. One article mentioned that it was close to an NYC car.

50’ flat - too short for most protypes

wood-side boxcar - reported based on a GN car

steel caboose - ATSF design

Bay-window caboose - an SP car

Wide-vision caboose - reportedly a Rock Island “short body” type. Length is too short for many actual cars.

57’ Mechanical reefer - close to a PFE R-40-20-serie

3

Most of the early blue box cars were pretty much made up. Here’s some food for thought:

  • 50’ flat: Prototype cars tend to have the deck extend to at least flush with the outer edges of the stake pockets. Athearn tooled theirs to be easier to cast in one piece, so the deck unrealistically terminates at the side sills.
  • Tank Cars (single or triple dome, “chemical”): As far as I know, nobody has successfully found prototypes for any of these. The single and triple dome cars have odd proportions and are oversized for most protoypes. There are a number of cars similar to the “chemical” tank among cars rostered by various owners. The tank design has nothing to do with hauling chemicals, but modelers seem to think in terms of how Athearn labeled it. Here’s a GATX car with a similar appearance http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gatx/gatx78048ags.jpg, and one from Staley http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-s/aesx4957akg.jpg
  • 50’ Gon: This is another weird car, as typical gons were 52’6" or thereabouts. You may have to fake a longer car like this http://www.wplives.com/archives/freight/gondolas/6055.html or this http://www.wplives.com/archives/freight/gondolas/6667.html, or similar from various roads.
4

my main issue with athearn is the brake wheel mount on the flat cars. i worked on the railroad from the time i was 16 years old and i never saw that kind of handbrake. piggy back flats had the handbrake side mounted but that was obviously because it would have been in the way of the bridge plates otherwise.

this doesn’t mean that there were never any cars like the athearn flats, i just never say any myself.

charlie

5

Charlie,Every 50’ flatcar I seen in my 9 1/2 years railroading had a brake wheel on a stem.

As far as the BB boxcars…Your shippers will love the extra foot in the width.[:O]

6

They did exist and I have the info and aphoto here somewhere. I will post it as soon as I find it.

What years did you work on the railroad? - those cars would have been from the 40’s and 50’s.

Sheldon

7

in response to Brakie and Sheldon; that style of handbrake may; have existed but to me it is like a unicorn. I can not prove they didn’t exist, I just never saw one. please post a photo if you can find it or PM it to me. I don’t doubt you , I just want to see it.

I hired out on the IC in Memphis around 1962-63 and went to the Big Four in 1967. i saw a lot of flats like you described with the wheel on the stem. the were made to drop down level with the deck and i believe the P2K flat cars have the wood floor material relieved to receive the brake wheel flush.

this feature was especially handy when the flat was loaded with poles or serving as an idler for a load that overhang another car… we used to get a lot of double and triple loads of treated poles with the brake shaft completely lowered and the pin lifters wired down so the cars could not be separated. (I can still smell the creosote) I guess treated wooden poles, like me, are quickly becoming a thing of the past.

Charlie

8

Hi!

I understand that a number of the BB cars were generic equivilents of ATSF or SP prototypes. This is especially true of some of the passenger cars.

Remember, Irv Athearn was located in California and those two RRs were the majority there.

9

The1943 Car Builder’s Cyclopedia , as partly reprinted in the Train Shed Cyclopedia No. 17, has a photo of a Western Maryland 50 foot (that is what they list it as) flatcar with a solid looking side mounted brake wheel not unlike the Athearn model. It hooked up to a chain and brake rod that went towards the fishbelly portion of the car . Builder was Greenville Steel Car Co. Other flats in that Cyc were 53’ or 52’6" but that WM car was 50’ so perhaps in part that was used by Athearn too.

This is no brief for inaccurate models but it is a bit easy to forget just how challenging it was to get accurate prototype photos of freight cars even 25 years ago much less 50 years ago. The Car Builder’s Cycs would generally have one view per car, sometimes two. For all practical purposes there were no books other than the Cycs, and nothing aimed at modelers with expansive prototype data and photos. So for example when Model Railroader reviewed the Athearn plastic 40’ boxcar in the July 1957 issue they made no comment about prototype fidelity other than that the car was “patterned” after an all steel riveted side panel prototype. Not one word about the brake system being backwards, or rather, upside down. Oh and by the way the car unlettered but painted was 89 cents.

10

Dave,

Someone else mention that it may be a WM car as well. They came equipped with that ‘fold down’ brake stand on the side. The brake stands only lasted a short time.

Jim

11

Charlie,Let me try again and I’ll try to be clearer…

Every 50’ flat car I seen had a standard flat car brake wheel mounted on the B end on a short round shaft.

Like this 53 footer.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-104108

12

I recall 20 years ago or so the UP Historical Society magazine had an article on using the Athearn 50’ double door boxcar as a 1936 UP car. IIRC the article said the car was a pretty accurate model of a UP boxcar (a “B-50-something” in UP nomenclature) and just needed a few improved details and proper paint and lettering.

The Athearn heavyweight cars are based on ATSF cars for the most part, if not all.

13

didn’t almost all flat cars have a brake wheel shaft that would drop down through the mechanism so the wheel would be flat on the floor? otherwise, end loading would be a problem unless the car was turned a end toward the dock. next time i can get in touch with one of my old car knocker buddies, i will pick his brain about flat car hand brakes.

and by the way, while on the subject of flat cars, i think they are the most dangerous car on the railroad. you can’t see the darned things in the dark but, that’s another story and an incident i lied my way out of.

charlie

14

Well Jim for the 50’ Gon, there is nothing you can do as there is no prototype for that car. It was designed by Irv to fit in the same box as the 40’ box car and also utilyze the frame from the 50’ flat car. This frame also causes a problem in the the side of the Gon should be straight if you use a the drop frame, it would be best to used the frame from the 50’ boxcar on this gon. Although incorrect many of the old Herald King sets for Gons could be used to do this car, I have done a number (when I did not know any better) and I have three of them siiting there that need paint and decals.

Also the 40’ Box is a 1944 AAR that was only purchased by the IC as it’s closest prototype. I have about twenty of these kits and may use them as fillers with various decals.

I know the metal sided reefer is a good approximation of one class of PFE reefers.

Rick J

15

Just because YOU have never seen it…

And yes they were the exception, not the rule…

Shown on page 201, fig 186, of the the 1940 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia, WESTERN MARYLAND 50-ton, 50 foot (not 51’ or 53’ or whatever) all welded flat car with Duryea cushion underframe. Build by Greenville Steel Car Company - equipped with a side mounted brake wheel stand.

If I can successfully scan it, I will post a picture for all you non believers as I have not found a picture on that “wonderfull” thing call the internet.

Athearn did mistakenly, or purposely not extend the decking out to the sides of the stake pockets - BUT - on this same page of the Cyclopedia, there are are four other flat cars - not one of the other four flat cars have there decking extended past the sides - so that might not have been as “universal” at that time as you think.

It is clear to me that the Athearn car is a composite of the cars shown in the 1940 Cyoclopedia. Interestingly, also shown a few pages later is a 200 ton four truck flat car just like Athearns “heavy duty” flat car.

And, most of the pictures of the 50 flat cars reflect many of the roadnames Athearn offered their cars in - NKP, C&O, WM, PRR, UP, etc.

There are also 50’ gondola’s about 17 pages later that look just like the Athearn cars.

I will check later for the other car types in the Blue Box line - anyone else out there have a the 1940 Cyclopedia? 1352 pages of prototype FACTS for someone who models the 40’s or 50’s - like me - not just speculation.

Pick on the Blue Box cars are you want, but a study of pictures from the 40’s and 50’s show most all of them to be very “representative” and reflect the proportions and flavor of that era even if they are not rivet perfect.

But what do I know, I just have a library of “actual” books and magazines.

Sheldon.

16

My fright car fleet is mostly modern BB freight cars.BB cars has been my car of choice over the years…I never cared for MDC/Roundhouse cars.

But what do I know, I just have a library of “actual” books and magazines.

I have several books that deals with my favorite railroad locomotives mostly C&O,B&O,N&W,DT&I, and Chessie.I have some books on ISLs by Lance Mindheim,Chessie the railroad kitten,American Shortline Guide,Ghost Railroads of Kentucky and my latest Bradford-The Railroad Town.A book on PRR’s history in Bradford,Ohio.

I never deem it necessary to buy a ton of books that I have no real interest in.

17

And, for a few more…

Again in the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia,

page 313, fig 395 - a Du Pont “Chemical” tank car for ammonia or fertilizer solution that looks EXACTLY like the Athearn car,

And on the same several pages of tank cars, a number of single dome and three dome cars looking VERY close to the other two Athearn 40’ tank cars.

And on page 318, fig 410 - the famous Heinz pickle car.

And on page 503, fig 763 - the 200 ton Union Pacific wrecking crane built by Bucyrus-Erie Company - looks just like my Athearn model.

And for you critics of the Athearn passenger cars, on page 542 and 543 there are drawings of SP daylight passenger cars clearly showing them to be only 79’ - 2" OVER THE BUFFERS, making the actual car bodies only 77’ - so Athearn only “compressed” them by 5’ to get their 72’ streamlined cars.

A review of all the passenger cars listed in the 1940 cyclopedia shows a great many of the lightweight cars built in the late 1930’s to be less than 80’ long - so, while freelanced for obvious reasons of production economy, the Athearn cars are not as “wrong” as most people think.

So it seems that a great deal of the original Blue Box line can be conveniently found in the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia - imagine that.

“made up”? - I think not - “exactly to scale”? - well what model is?

Sheldon

18

Those short “heavy weight” passenger cars wasn’t that far off…IIRC they was based on a Santa Fe design?

Athearn passenger cars filled a “realistic” need-short passenger cars for the average home layout that feature 18 and 22" curves…

I still like those heavy weight cars.

19

Not the best picture, but here it is:

Sheldon

20

Actually, the ATSF passenger cars did not have the regular Pullman Standard Car Co belt rail at the windows, the Athearn cars do.

BUT, you are correct in that a great many heavyweight cars were not 80’ or 85’ long either.

Only the Athearn Pullman and Diner heavyweights are without reasonable prototypes.

I have large fleet of Athearn heavyweights, stream liners and ConCor 72’ stream liners and have developed lots of detailing tricks for them. Many people have asked - what brand are those passenger cars, they look great!

Sheldon