Im trying to run an Athearn Genesis F3AB set that I bought a few years ago, with an Athearn Genesis F9A unit that I bought a few months ago. Im having trouble speed matching the units. The F3’s start at a lower voltage and they accelerate at a faster rate than the F9. The F3’s start on speed step 1, the F9 on step 4. Do the older F3’s have a different gear ratio than the F9?
Hmm–
Oops, I posted an original reply to your title only, since it took a while for your actual post to come up on my screen, so I don’t know if I can be much help.
I was assuming that the only difference between the Genesis units would be in the shell, not the mechanism. I have two Athearn F-3’s in Rio Grande (A/B, both powered) and they run very smooth in tandem.
I’m not a DCC operator, so I can only take a guess–is it possibly a difference in decoders between the dates of locomotive manufacture rather than a difference in the actual gearing ratio? I’d be surprised that Genesis would change their gearing ratio over only a couple of years, since the original was so successful–perhaps the F9 decoder requires a higher starting capacity.
As I said, I’m just kind of guessing in the dark. Hopefully a fellow DCC’er familiar with the Genesis decoders can answer your problem.
Tom
Why do you assume, I said it in the title? How do you think Im talking about prototypes when I said Athearn Genesis? The Athearn Genesis F3’s were made at least 4 years before the Athearn Genesis F9 . Things change, for instance they used to have MRC sound, now they have Tsunamis. I remember someones F units, maybe Prottos, that changed their models gear ratio. I was wondering if the model Athearn Genesis F3 has the same or different gear ratio than an Athearn Genesis model F9.
Sorry, now I realize what happened.
Santa Fe:
That’s OK–I wasn’t able to modify my post before it got posted, either, LOL!
Tom [:D]
I don’t know if your F3 diesels are quite this old, but in the first few years (late 90s to early 2000s) of Genesis, Athearn used a different motor. It was a gold Buehler can motor that ran faster than the current silver Roco can motors. That would certainly cause a noticable difference in operation.
Have your F3s been run a lot compared to the F9? Maybe the F3s are broken in.
I would say A and/or B; A. different decoders, B. different motors. I would change the motors, then fine tune with the decoders. The gears are probably the least likely to have changed, but I wouldn’t rule them out, so best to check them too.
Not sure if this is the same problem, but I have an ABBA set of Athearn Genesis Santa Fe F3s. The first AB set I got about a year before the second AB set (these are passenger locos by the way)
The first set ran slower then the second set. They all had MRC sound decoders. I tried my best to speed match them, but at the initial start up there was always a little pushing or tugging.
Just this weekend, I converted them all to Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders. Now they all run at or very near the same speed. So my guess is that MRC changed something on their decoders between the first AB set I purchased and the second set.
Might be what you’re seeing…that is if yours came with DCC decoders on board.
Thanks for the info folks. To answer some of your questions, all the units are factory equip. with DCC and sound. Also niether F3’s or F9 have much runtime on them. The F9, with is slower, has a faint clickety, clickety sound which is slightly noticable at slow speeds. Maybe it needs grease? I do plan on fitting all these units with Tsunami’s as soon as I can afford to, so maybe that will solve the problem. 3 Tsunami’s x $79 ea + ouch.
Ain’t that the truth [B)]
Took me quite a while to save up for the four I needed. But worth it in the end. A major improvement.
In my experience, if your units are old, the gears should be cleaned out of all old and dried lube and regreased with plastic compatible lube. I found Labell and Hob-E-lube offer excellent luberication products. The older Atherns use a red plastic worm gear; the newer use a superior brass worm like most other manufacturers. I had problems with older units, plastic worms chewing up the top spur gear but not so much with the brass worm. I am looking into regear kits and drive components to upgrade my 20 count Funit fleet. I have had good results with older models by swapping the gears around periodically and re greasing with black molly lube. My experience with “ticking” noises has been the top gear, under the worm starting to break down. I hope this might be helpful info for you. All my F units have the large Roco can motor that seems to run very smooth. A- line offers superior, more efficient motors but they are expensive. Another issue I have seen is drive wheels having a slight wobble causing binding every 3/4 rotation and poor “crwl speed” performance and shorter gearbox life. This binding is at the axle pins in the side frames.
OLD TOPIC ALERT
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Actually, it’s the brass worms that are older. Athearn used the same ones for 40 years before “upgrading” to “quieter” nylon worms. I have plenty of Athearns dating from the 60’s to the 2000’s, and everything before about 2005 or so had brass worms.
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I haven’t heard of that problem before. If any of your F units are Blue Box, Ernst has a super slow regear kit to go with the old high speed motors of the 60’s and 70’s.
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The Roco motor is actually a little more efficient than the Mashima motor from A Line. The Mashimas are certainly some of the best, but I’ve found the modern Roco motors in current Genesis diesels to be very close in performance.
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With all the info, I’m guessing you have a lot of Genesis units. The Genesis drive is a close copy of Kato’s. The Kato axles are a perfect fit in the Genesis trucks if you need better wheels and axle gears (I’ve tried it before, and it worked great). If the entire trucks are giving you problems, you may be able to adapt Kato trucks to fit. That would solve all of your issues.